Please Do Not Kill the Snake

Please Do Not Kill The Snake

I was recently called by a neighbor to identify a snake in the garage. This is nothing new for me or many other Reptile Keepers. I went and Identified it has a Harmless Scarlet King Snake. They both were very adamant that it was in fact the Dangerous Coral snake and told me in years past they would have just taken a shovel to it. How many times have we heard this story of killing a snake because it is perceived as dangerous or in “someone’s” house?

Which is Dangerous Which is Harmless?

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In the United States we actually have Three species of Coral Snake, The Eastern The Texas and The Arizona. Yet we have many species of Tricolor snakes that people mistake for the more dangerous tricolor Corals. It is important that anyone living in an area never touch any snake they do not recognize. Even if you recognize the snake as venomous and have worked with non-venomous snakes Leave it Alone it really is not worth the risk. Please leave the handling and manipulation of venomous snakes to people who have the proper tools and training to work with them.

If you find a snake in their house “ not yours , after all you built your home on their property” You can if its in the house pull the trash bag out of your trash can and lay the can down on its side and with a long handled broom gently brush it in the can. Place the lid back on it and call your local Animal Control Agency.

If you find a snake in Its Garage the same technique hold true or take that same offending shovel and a broom and sweep it on the shovel and let it go back in its nice Rose Garden. If you just have to have it removed from its property. Sweep it in the can and call the professionals.

I believe it to be our responsibility to educate persons whenever possible. So I proceeded to explain to my two neighbors the difference and a simple way to tell them apart. I do not believe in using the old Rhyme of red touches yellow kill a fellow. As that if you run across an aberrant specimen it may not hold true. What I do like to tell people is to think of a stop sign Yellow means Caution, Red Means stop so just like a stop sign if red and yellow touch you better not.

So were you right about which is a coral and which is a Scarlet King

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Top is The dangerous Coral Snake. Bottom is the Harmless Scarlet King

If you find a snake in their house “ not yours , after all you built your home on their property” You can if its in the house pull the trash bag out of your trash can and lay the can down on its side and with a long handled broom gently brush it in the can. Place the lid back on it and call your local Animal Control Agency.

First of all, my house is my house and, it does not belong to a snake, not any snake. Heck I have the deed. Yet snakes get off easy in my house, but I don't think a dirtbag who would try to harm my family or me would get off so easily.

Secondly, are you recommending this method of snake capture for snakes like the EDB Rattler, the WDB Rattler or the Mojave? How long a broom handle do you recommend for a 5 to 6 foot or larger snake?

I do not suggest killing the snakes, but I certainly do not recommend unknown species either directly or indirectly unless you are adept at snake handling and have the proper tools. Brooms are not one of my choices unless in an emergency. Wouldn't it be better to simply contact animal control and keep an eye on the beastie, as long as possible, from a safe distance? You may also want to turn down the AC (f you can access it safely) to as cold as it will get in hopes of cooling the snake to make it less active. Get all children and free roaming pets out of the area. Wait for animal control.

I usually recomend that people, in areas with a fair amount of snakes where such encounters are common, invest in a decent field guide to help with identification. I also recommend a visit to a local zoo wherein local species of venomous are kept. There you can familiarize yourself with them first hand. This is especially a good idea when there are venomous species in your area. It helps you to be able to inform medical authorities of the snake's identity in the event you are ever bitten by one.

Best regards,
Glenn B

Glenn,

A push broom works fine for a 5' Eastern. The bigger the snake, the proportionally smaller its strike range. A tool the same length of the snake is generally sufficient.

The best thing to do is to pick up the phone and call for an expert to remove the animal, but if you have to do it yourself, detailed instructions can be found at www.snakegetters.com.

First of all, my house is my house and, it does not belong to a snake, not any snake. Heck I have the deed. Yet snakes get off easy in my house, but I don't think a dirtbag who would try to harm my family or me would get off so easily.

The simple said statement was so people might stop killing animals that were there long before any contractor even thought of building on the property. As to any scumbag breaking in They deffinately deserve to meet Mr Smith and Mr Wesson.

Secondly, are you recommending this method of snake capture for snakes like the EDB Rattler, the WDB Rattler or the Mojave? How long a broom handle do you recommend for a 5 to 6 foot or larger snake?

Certainly I am its a very safe and effective method one i use on my own Easterns and when i lived in California one that worked very well on the Mojaves and Southern Pacifics. As to broom as I stated a " long handle" 5 to 6 feet in length would be perfect. the method is simple lay the can on its side and brush the animal in. By doing that you stay our of range of a bite and get the snake safely secured.

You may also want to turn down the AC (f you can access it safely) to as cold as it will get in hopes of cooling the snake to make it less active.

That certainly would not be a viable alternative as I know of no house hold AC unit that could chill a house fast enough or to a temp low enough to slow them down till animal control can get there which could be as little as 5 minutes and as long as several hours in some cases. However having somone get other family memebers out of the house while waiting if you choose to wait for animal control is ceertainly not a bad idea. However again if the animal is controlled in a trash can then the safety factor conciderablly is increased for all.

I usually recomend that people, in areas with a fair amount of snakes where such encounters are common, invest in a decent field guide to help with identification. I also recommend a visit to a local zoo wherein local species of venomous are kept. There you can familiarize yourself with them first hand. This is especially a good idea when there are venomous species in your area. It helps you to be able to inform medical authorities of the snake's identity in the event you are ever bitten by one.

I fully agree with this but how many people can maintain the calm or presents of mind to properly ID a venomous reptile in a moment of suprise, shock, or from a blind strike out of a rock or brush. Though education is a key and important tool the average person who really does not have an interest in them is not going to take the time to be able to properly ID it after they are bitten. I actually know many herpers who though they can ID their species of intrest can not ID a Plains Rattler from a Mojave from a Western. with all things equal.

Scott and Tanith,

That certainly would not be a viable alternative as I know of no house hold AC unit that could chill a house fast enough or to a temp low enough to slow them down till animal control can get there which could be as little as 5 minutes and as long as several hours in some cases. However having somone get other family memebers out of the house while waiting if you choose to wait for animal control is ceertainly not a bad idea.

The suggestion about the AC has more than one purpose. Maybe you will agree that even if it does not cool the house rapidly enough, there is another good reason for it.

As for cooling a room in which a snake is found, in my home I could cool most of the rooms by a few degrees within 10 to 15 minutes. A few degrees from about 72 to 68 would be a marked change for the snake, don't you think. Sure it will remain active but will be less likely to be as active in my opinion. Consider that animal control is one of the most understaffed units of law enforcement, and it may be over a half hour before they arrive on scene even in an urban area. Now if you live out in the boonies, it may take them over an hour to arrive. Any cooling of a snake that MAY help it to be less active would be a good idea to try. Cooling the room will not harm the owner of the house, nor the snake, and that is even if it does not help the snake to become calmer. Regardless as to whether or not it calms the snake, it probably will not make the snake more aggressive or anxious. Yet there is that chance it may help to make it less active just a bit. More importantly, it may also make the homeowner a bit more calm, and therefor less likely to do something stupid. Upon arrival of the emergency service workers or animal removal people, it may also help them remain a bit more calm or at least comfortable while catching that snake. No one needs sweaty hands when doing such a thing. Now if animal control arrives in 5 minutes, so what you wasted 5 minutes of extra electricity. Heck, I cannot even get the local police to arrive within 5 minutes, let alone animal control.

As to broom as I stated a " long handle" 5 to 6 feet in length would be perfect. the method is simple lay the can on its side and brush the animal in. By doing that you stay our of range of a bite and get the snake safely secured.

So now tell me, how many people have a broom that is 5 to 6 feet long lying around? They likely would either be janitors or snake keepers. Much better not to move that snake without the proper tools and experience but to call animal control and let them do it. Also, who of the inexperienced know what distance is required to keep out of the snake's strike range such as when placing that can? I'd bet most snake keepers/hunters cannot reliably judge the size of a snake by eye alone, let alone figure its strike range, so how would a scared homeowner do so.

Certainly I am its a very safe and effective method one i use on my own Easterns and when i lived in California one that worked very well on the Mojaves and Southern Pacifics.

While I know the technique is probably easy for you, and you consider it safe and effective - that is for you or other experienced snake keepers. In other words it is easy, safe and effective for someone who has practiced it first with a docile snake, and then on venomous. Even extremely experienced snake collectors sometime have major problems bagging rattlers or other anxious/nervous species by steering them into a collection box/bag /can. The more you mess with the snake, the more likely you are to be envenomated if it is a hot. Most non-snake people will be in a bit (no pun intended) of a panic if they think the snake is venomous; others watch too much Steve Irwin and may be too bold. I think you need to check your personal and professional liability insurance if this is what you recommend to non-snake type people.

However again if the animal is controlled in a trash can then the safety factor conciderablly is increased for all.

Sure having the snake in a can increases the safety margin. The thing is getting the snake into the can. Again I have to say, that what you can do with ease, is not necessarily something that a person who has never been around snakes can do with great difficulty let alone with safety or effectiveness. In other words, even after going through considerable difficulty, they may still be unable to can that snake. Also remember the snake is unlikely to cooperate, about as unlikely to cooperate as is the homeowner to be adept at canning it or remaining calm. The safety factor declines markedly while an inexperienced and possibly panicked person is making an attempt to get the snake into a can.

Think of an actual scenario. While you may anticipate the backwards retreat of a WDB, do you think a non-snake homeowner would anticipate this? The reared up position of a retreating WDB would almost definitely intimidate an inexperienced person greatly. Then if a snake rattles and then strikes out while you push it, you are fully aware it will not reach you. I'll bet though that the first time a rattler struck at you, even if you were far enough away not to be tagged, you felt like jumping or pulling back. On the other hand, imagine that person who is inexperienced, and has already been intimidated not just by the presence of the snake, but now by its raising itself up, and its apparent aggressive retreat style. Now the snake starts to rattle its tail and the homeowner starts to rattle his/her knees together. In such a state, if someone with no snake experience pushes that snake with the broom, and the snake strikes and maybe hits the broom handle, the person may go into mega-overload panic. This could cause the person to throw the broom and in so doing, the snake could be lifted and fall onto the homeowner (think of that push broom style of broom here). Or in the tizzy caused by the panic, the homeowner could try to hop, skip, jump, run or even fly away (I kid you not this is a recorded reaction that people have said they experienced in panic type situations - they had hoped to fly away). This may result in the person falling over the broom, their own two feet, a garden hose, the can, or some furniture. They may wind up flailing about on top the darned thing, and I do mean atop the snake. That could result in a nasty bite or multiple bites. This a very plausible situation for an inexperienced and very afraid person who is, for the first time, handling albeit indirectly a potentially deadly snake.

Bear in mind that the original strike that caused this panic would not have to have come even close to connection to make many people react with absolute super-panic, nor would it have to have been from a venomous species. Ever see what a mouse does to some grown women and grown men. Even some big tough guys act like terrified wimps if they see a mouse run by at fairly close range. Imagine what a raised up, moving, rattling and striking rattler or bull snake could accomplish. Sure you could not fall on a bull snake and be envenomated, but you could break a leg in falling. This is why I think it best not to tell someone to push that snake into a can with a broom. I seriously have to think that the best advice is that which, I believe, has been doled out seemingly by the great majority of experts whom I have read over the years - leave it alone and let an expert handle it. Of course if it is a true emergency, such as the snake is a couple of feet from a young child who is cornered, or who has been bitten already, then sweep away to your heart's content.

As for people not taking the time to ID a snake that has bitten them, this is where education comes to play. People in areas with good sized populations of venomous snakes should, I think, be encouraged by local authorities to become familiar with venomous snakes in their area. Most people are bitten by the snake they attempted to handle in some manner. If they had enough time to handle it they had enough time to ID it before being bitten. Of course many of them who are bitten because they handled the snake are also intoxicated, so who knows if they could ID a snake in that state. Yet for those who were coherent enough, it could be of some great benefit to them. Other people bitten by surprise could also possibly ID the biter. Of course, the other scenario is when a child is bitten. As mom or dad applies takes the child out of harms way, the other parent calls 911. Hopefully one of the parents will have thought to take a few seconds to look around a bit to see if the snake is still there or even for any evidence of a snake as opposed to a thorn bush. One of the first questions they will be asked, either by the experienced 911 operator or medical responders, is: 'Did you see the snake, if so what kind of snake was it?'

The moment they (the victim or those first on scene) take to gather their wits to calmly ID that snake is the moment during which they made a conscious effort to think and not to panic. Not going into a panic state when envenomated could save the life of the victim. Many people who have been bitten by snakes have properly identified the snake that bit them because they were familiar with the types in their area. This has made it easier for medical personnel to make proper decisions on treatment. There is no reason not to try to ID for a few seconds if it can be done without touching the snake or without putting yourself in danger of another bite. If the snake is not ID'd and the person assumes it is venomous, then think of all the potentials for disaster when emergency units respond code three, or as the bitten person tries to drive like a maniac to the hospital.

If it is not ID'd because you could not ID it, so be it, but at least you looked, and tried to figure what it was, thereby helping to avert a panic. If you do see it is nonvenomous great. If you see it was a rattlesnake, or cottonmouth, or copperhead, or coral snake - think of how much faster it will make the authorities respond, and how much more prepared they will be upon arrival. There is no excuse for someone who lives in close proximity to venomous snakes to not learn how to do basic identifications of venomous from nonvenomous. Of course they could always be wrong or uncertain or just unable to get an ID at all - but if they did get it, so much the better.

Oh by the way, I tried the link from Tanith. Got through when I typed it in, but clicking on the link did not work. As for the info on moving a snake with a broom, there is, in my opinion, a glaring underestimation made about the strike distance of a snake. It says this:

A snake can only strike half its length so the broom is long enough to keep the property owner safely out of striking range.

This statement has the potential for disaster as I see it. A viperid snake, can in general usually strike up to 1/3 of its length, and sometimes can strike as far as 1/2 its length from level ground. One or two species may even strike further. Note I said from level ground. A snake striking down hill, or out into space from a ledge or garden wall, or from a bush or tree limb, may be able to strike considerably further than 1/2 its body length. There are also other types of venomous snakes that can strike much further than 1/2 the body length on a level plain.
I have also read of one species that is virtually able to strike almost the entire length of its body. Finally, there are some snakes that actually become aggressive when pushed around. They in effect attack that which is pursuing or pestering them. Many Australian elapids are known for this trait, as are some of the cobras. Considering all of the exotic species of snakes kept in this country, it is quite conceivable that the snake found in your yard or garage could be an exotic species known for its aggressive behavior. I, for one, would not want to push one of these around with a broom. I just think it best, that unless it is a dire emergency, people should call for help, just like it says on Tanith's linked pages. By the way, very interesting site, that snakegetters.com.

Just my opinion on the matter.
All the best,
Glenn B

Glenn has some very good points. I have to work hard to remember that a situation that is a **yawn** **walk over casually and take care of it** for us experienced herpers is a total panic situation for the average person.

We cannot suggest that the average layperson use the same tools we use or do the things we do, even when they seem unbelievably simple and easy to us. Doing this can get us in trouble. I have to remind myself of this frequently and I'm glad there are other people reminding us also.

I do teach police officers, wildlife officers, etc, to improvise with tools like brooms and trash cans, because in some cases there may be a genuine emergency situation and no available responder. So they're it, and they really do need to know the safer alternatives to beating the snake to death with a stick (which is a darn good way to get bit according to hospital statistics).

But if there is a trained responder and it's possible to call one, that's always better. It's just not always possible.

Very Nice post i love it when people like to disagree and come up with other theories.

Where I agree with many of them. The purpose of my post was to make people stop and think of alternitives to killing something because it was in their house, and to try and give suggestions as to what to do if one is found. You have added greatly to that thank you.

REMINDER TO HUNTER

Ray the newspaper still needs you to write that paper !!!! I know you havent i aint seen it yet lol

Originally posted by Glenn Bartley

While I know the technique is probably easy for you, and you consider it safe and effective - that is for you or other experienced snake keepers. In other words it is easy, safe and effective for someone who has practiced it first with a docile snake, and then on venomous.

Thus the training seminars for police officers where they get to practice with nasty brown watersnakes and watch me sweep venomous snakes around. It's a good confidence builder.

One of the first questions they will be asked, either by the experienced 911 operator or medical responders, is: 'Did you see the snake, if so what kind of snake was it?'

In North America, identifying the snake is much less relevant to the medical management of a case than it is in other countries such as Australia.

As for the info on moving a snake with a broom, there is, in my opinion, a glaring underestimation made about the strike distance of a snake. It says this: This statement has the potential for disaster as I see it. A viperid snake, can in general usually strike up to 1/3 of its length, and sometimes can strike as far as 1/2 its length from level ground. One or two species may even strike further. Note I said from level ground. A snake striking down hill, or out into space from a ledge or garden wall, or from a bush or tree limb, may be able to strike considerably further than 1/2 its body length. There are also other types of venomous snakes that can strike much further than 1/2 the body length on a level plain.

The University of Florida web page says that a snake can strike half its length, which I agree is a bit of an understatement in some cases. My web page says that a safe distance is about one snake length away from the snake.

I have also read of one species that is virtually able to strike almost the entire length of its body.

Sure, but we don't have any arboreal vipers in North America. What species were you thinking of?

The fact is that on a hot day or if it is sufficiently agitated and in pain, almost any snake can lunge about one body length forward to strike. They generally don't, but they can, so I suggest one snake length as the safety distance. Inexperienced people will inevitably overestimate the snake's length by 50% to 100%, which is fine for their safety.

Tanith,

I recently read about a species of Australian elapid that has this long distance strike. The article is located at http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/16 . It is called Common Novice Handling Mistakes and was written, I think, by Allen Hunter. In case the link does not work it is on the VenomousReptiles site It was a pretty interesting piece. I was surprised to read about a snake that can reportedly strike this far out; I would like to find out some more about it. The article says that the snake almost goes airborne. I really hope to find more on this one.

In North America, identifying the snake is much less relevant to the medical management of a case than it is in other countries such as Australia.

I disagree strongly on part of this one. While it may be of more importance in Australia it is nonetheless very important here in the USA. Knowing what snake delivered the bite is extremely relevant to the ensuing course of treatment. There have been cases of doctors in the USA administering antivenom for bites of nonvenomous species such as some water snakes. There also have been cases of children being rushed to the hospital, by a concerned parent weaving through traffic, all because the child was bitten by a Garter Snake or similar normally harmless species! It is important to know, if possible, whether or not the bite was from a venomous species at all, or even if it is a snakebite as opposed to a thorn prick or a spider bite. I personally know of one person who was bitten by a Northern Watersnake who almost received antivenom from an overzealous doctor who thought it was a copperhead bite.

It would also be quite the thing to be able to tell your doctor whether or not it was a WDB as opposed to a Mojave or a Southern Pacific Rattler rattler that bit you.

Envenomation by some rattlesnakes, such as the Mojave rattlesnake (Crotalus scutulatus), may cause a different clinical presentation than that generally encountered after most rattlesnake bites.

This quote was from an article online Snake Envenomation, Mojave Rattle by Dr. Sean P. Bush (September 2003). The workings of each of these snakes' venom is sufficiently different from one another as to require differing medical care with different areas of concern for which to be alert. While polyvalent antivenom is the only one I know of available for both types of these snakes; there are two types of polyvalent commercially available in the USA for rattlesnake envenomation. CroFab is reportedly the one of choice for a Mojave bite. The sad thing is that this identification would be one of the more difficult ones to make for a non-snake type person; however, I was recently in Arizona and many non-herpers to whom I spoke surprisingly were aware of how to tell the difference. I guess it comes with living in Mojave Rattlesnake country. Of course the same need, to identify the snake, would hold true for a coral snake bite as opposed to that of a copperhead or a cottonmouth or a rattler.

As for arboreal snakes, I was not necessarily talking about any species of venomous snake native to the United States; as I pointed out a captive kept exotic could be the snake you find in your yard or garage. Then again, I have seen two or three rattlers in bushes and one in a small tree before in Arizona and California. These sightings took place over about 24 years of snake hunting/watching. This is a rare sight but that makes it a really neat and memorable sighting when you make one. As to being in the bushes, I think it may have been to escape heat or to look for prey. Then again it could have been the snake was seeking shelter when it felt the vibrations of my big belly shaking the earth as I walked along looking for snakes. The tree was probably a snake looking to invade a birds nest. It was a small bushy tree, lots of low to the ground branches and had a nest. I have also seen some cottonmouths in the branches and exposed root systems of bushes and trees on swamp banks and riverbanks. My guess is that copperheads sometimes also may frequent bushes or trees in search of a meal. It would not be all that difficult for any of these snakes to wind up in a bush or atop a garden wall in someone's yard or to even wind up in a ceiling beam of a basement or lower level of a two level barn. A snake striking out from any of these positions could conceivably strike much firther than its body length or even go airborn when it strikes and fall on you. It is a nice thing that they usually do not climb bushes and trees or enter human abodes as do many venomous snakes in Africa, Asia and Australia.

As far as a snake going airborne goes, I have seen a few comical ones. I have been struck at by a very small WDB rattler in Texas that really did lift itself off of the ground - level ground at that. It was a truly amazing and scary sight. Of course it should not have been too scary as I was really at a safe distance, but I am a true wimp about snake bite even from nonvenomous species. This particular snake repeatedly struck at me without backing away and actually advanced several inches with a few of its strikes, until it apparently tired to much to strike any more. Once or twice, while striking, it appeared to leave the ground completely, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. My guess is that its light weight and the speed and force of the strike combined to get it up like that. I have also seen a small sidewinder do likewise. With the sidewinder, I believe that it may have been able to leave the ground when it struck due to the particular muscle development that it utilizes for sidewinding. I could not say for sure about that, but I can say with absolute certainty that when this snake struck it went airborne. I also can tell you that when the sidewinder struck, it sort of caught me by surprise while I was answering the call of nature. I was a young, slim and trim Border Patrol Agent on patrol just west of Calexico, California at the time. I figure I went airborne about three feet straight up and about 3 to 4 feet to the side in one swift motion and did not even get my shoes wet. I saw four sidewinders that same night, the only ones I had seen in 4 years out there.

Now as for an inexperienced person attempting to maintain proper distance, and use proper technique to can a snake with a broom - I still maintain that this would be very difficult and potentially very dangerous for most non-herpers. The police and others you train (kudos for you) get that all important experience before going out and trying this for real on an angry, warmed up, EDR. A non-herper reading the info on your web site, probably does not train first. They also probably read your site once or twice, and never look at it again. Then they try to remember what it was you had posted. I figure it is a good thing that they have an idea of how to can them with a can and broom. As Scott said, this is better than trying to hack the snake to death, bit I am hopeful they will remember that you posted it is best seek out a professional for help first. I am also hopeful that they paid more attention to your site than they did to Steve Irwin and his tailing of venomous species. Keep up the good work on that nice and informative site.

Best regards,
Glenn B