Steve Markevich/ Serpent's Den

Originally Posted by LakesideBoas

Did I not put a disclaimer of sorts at the end of my post?

I am not Steve, I have no reason to judge him for not paying his taxes, electricity or building rental.

I was trying to point out the way things might have been turned in the article.

If things were so horrid there the local news media would have been there with bells on at the outset.

In 1993 while I was working for the Humane Society we had to "rescue" 106 cats from a house that had been condemned by the health department (it was hardly a rescue, most of the animals were dead or dying). The old lady who lived there was moved to an assisted living facility (and I did not judge her either).

Upon our initial inspection where we determined that we would have to have breathing apparatus dontated for use that day by the local fire department (as no one person could stay in the house longer than 10 minutes even with it) the local news media arrived before we did.

This one waited a year?

Yes, they are culpable if they did turn off the only heat in the building. You don't have to agree with that assessment.

If I create the conditions conducive to causing a percieved problem, I can hardly call it a "rescue" when I liberate those animals from that problem.

I guess we can just agree to disagree about the culpability of the authorities. I'm not looking to start an argument with you Maggie.

It was Steve's shop, it was Steve's animals as someone who keeps reptiles I am responsible for their care and well being. Part of that responsibility is to provide adequate living conditions, food, fresh water, proper temps, etc.... If I was unable to maintain an acceptable domicile for my animals then I am responsible for finding them a new home. If I don't do so and let them suffer for five days with no heat, food or fresh water then I am the cause of their problem. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions, something that Steve doesn't appear to do very well....

I think the point Maggie was trying to make is that it may take some time to get everything moved if he had alot of animals.

I know that if I had to up and move... there is no way I could do it in just a day.... I have tooo many animals for that... and it would take time to find suitable housing for the animals... cause not everyone likes reptiles or will tolerate them in their house.

Thus 5 days does not seem unreasonable to me with the info I have. Maybe the GF wasnt into herps.... or maybe she was having problems trying to find enough space to move them into.

I will say this..... if the authorities disconnected both the power and the heat the day they arrested him.... then YES... they did cause the situation the animals were left in. They could have left the generator running... they could have left the heat on. (both the gas to run the generator and the propane to run the heat had been paid for already... and thus not owed to anyone).

I think it would be awesome if Steve would come on here and share what really happened rather than just allowing an email to be posted. I have been talking to the Chris Foley he speaks of for over 5 years now. I know a little bit about the situation, but I am not involved in any way, so I can't really say anything. I will try to contact Chris about this thread, maybe he could shed some light. In the mean time, if Steve is reading, I have one question for him. How is it that Chris ended up with the snakes? I know the answer, but not everyone does.

I will post some hearsay, as I heard it months ago, because some think that the authorities caused the situation the animals were in. At the time that the animals were "stolen" in Steves word, all of the high end animals had already been removed, and the cages were empty. Cards from the cages of hets were scattered on the floor, so that anyone confisctaing them wouldn't know what was what. The authorities may have cut the power, but they aren't the ones who went through the trouble of getting the high end stuff out of the racks and left the others to die. If/ when Chris shows up, maybe he can explain how many animals he had from the shop, how much he spent feeding and caring for them, and why if he has some of the animals for sale he is justifed in selling them.

Well, Steve was incarcerated during those five days, so if we must blame someone, we could blame the GF. (I'm not going to)

Steve did tell me the authorities did not turn off the propane heaters, so that is a non-issue at this point.

And I have no wish to argue with you either. I was pointing out an alternative to the perspective of the news media. Some things about that article just do not smell quite right.

I think Steve did more "harm" posting the truth in his side of the issue. I am sure it was hard for him. Circumstances can spiral out of control. That does not condone the non-paypent of rents, taxes and utilities, but it is an example of how circmstnces can lead into a situation beyond your ability to rectify.

My oldest son got married on Monday (FINALLY! ) At the recption one of the guests was with the local Police force. We were chatting along happily for two hours or so until the conversation got around to hobbies. When I mentioned my reptiles he exclaimed, "Oh! You're THAT lady!" and proceeded to give me the "stink eye" for the rest of the evening. I'm quite sure the smirk I could not erase from my face the remainder of the evening did not help. I think he'd have been happier if I had vomited on his shoes.

It goes to show that those of us in this hobby (or in business) don't always get a fair, open-minded shake from the local authorities. (Thank goodness there are some brains within the DNR in this area!) Most of the people I know (in postitions of authority or not) do not think of reptiles as pets. I find that sad.

I hope Steve will post here and let us know what happens with this.

There is no way in hell that the authorities are culpable for any of this big mess.

There would be no generator to turn off if the electric, rent and other bills were paid. this all falls back on Steve and to try and place blame on another is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by LakesideBoas

The authorities turned off the generator. I asked Steve if they had turned off the propane heaters also, as if they did, they created the very conditions they came to the "rescue" of: conditions conducive to RI and death to a reptile. He hasn't had a chance to get back to me yet, but if they did turn off the only heat in the building, knowing it was used to house and maintain reptiles I feel that makes the so called authorities entirely culpable for the health situation described in the article

I was thinking that Chris Foley worked in a capicity with the Police or Animal Control, although I do not know him and had not herd of him until today.

It would be great if he could post here, Davey!

Originally Posted by LakesideBoas

Well, Steve was incarcerated during those five days, so if we must blame someone, we could blame the GF. (I'm not going to)

Steve did tell me the authorities did not turn off the propane heaters, so that is a non-issue at this point.

And I have no wish to argue with you either. I was pointing out an alternative to the perspective of the news media. Some things about that article just do not smell quite right.

I think Steve did more "harm" posting the truth in his side of the issue. I am sure it was hard for him. Circumstances can spiral out of control. That does not condone the non-paypent of rents, taxes and utilities, but it is an example of how circmstnces can lead into a situation beyond your ability to rectify.

My oldest son got married on Monday (FINALLY! ) At the recption one of the guests was with the local Police force. We were chatting along happily for two hours or so until the conversation got around to hobbies. When I mentioned my reptiles he exclaimed, "Oh! You're THAT lady!" and proceeded to give me the "stink eye" for the rest of the evening. I'm quite sure the smirk I could not erase from my face the remainder of the evening did not help. I think he'd have been happier if I had vomited on his shoes.

It goes to show that those of us in this hobby (or in business) don't always get a fair, open-minded shake from the local authorities. (Thank goodness there are some brains within the DNR in this area!) Most of the people I know (in postitions of authority or not) do not think of reptiles as pets. I find that sad.

I hope Steve will post here and let us know what happens with this.

That's one thing we can 100% agree on, that article doesn't smell right. They can't even get the date right as they state the seizure was in July, Steve say's it was in April. Plus I agree if it was news it should have been news 6 months ago when everything took place.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

There is no way in hell that the authorities are culpable for any of this big mess.

There would be no generator to turn off if the electric, rent and other bills were paid. this all falls back on Steve and to try and place blame on another is ludicrous.

Seraphim stated it much better than I did, Ed. They did not cause the "big mess" Steve did. I was stating that IF they turned off the heaters after they arrested Steve they would have been directly responsible for contributing to their health problems leading to their demise.

Personally I would have used the monies borrowed to purchase the generator to pay some of the back rent and electricity. A generator of the size to operate even a small business is moderately expensive, unless he got one from a buddy or something.

Originally Posted by LakesideBoas

I was thinking that Chris Foley worked in a capicity with the Police or Animal Control, although I do not know him and had not herd of him until today.

It would be great if he could post here, Davey!

I don't know Chris' email addy, I only talk to him through AIM so if he comes on I Will direct him here. He is one of the only contacts, if not the only one in the area that deals with reptile rescues for animal control.

I don't recall the date of seizure, but it was not recent. Chris had those animals for a LONG time, and I know it was taking a toll financially.