Ian of Outback Reptiles

Hello, my name is Ralph Turner and I wanted to share my horrible transaction I had with Ian from Outback Reptiles. I'm sorry for this extremely long story, but I just wanted to tell you ALL of the details of what happened from start to finish today.

I've seen Outback Reptiles at the White Plains, NY shows the last few times I went and they have been on main stage the last few times I attended as well. I also noticed most, if not all of Ian's feedback from what I have seen is excellent. It looked to me as if he had a lot of nice snakes, so I purchased a male spider ball python for $200 from him. I go home, set him in quarantine, and he defecates a horrible smelling/liquidy fecal matter. It it nothing like I have ever seen before, so I give him a call a week later after the snake continued to defecate the same way as before. I also wanted to know what it was feeding on because I failed to ask when buying the snake and it would not eat the f/t mice or live mice I offered him. My mother called Outback Reptiles the first time because she thought she could try and work something out if this was a sick snake. She explained to the lady that answered the phone that my snake seemed like it was sick and they told her since it was bought from them already that they can't really do anything, all sales final or whatever. She hung up with her and talked to me. I got a little pissed since it was only a week later and I was pretty sure I had a sick snake on my hands. She called them back and made it like she was going to post bad feedback for them and they put Ian on the phone right away to see if he would help the situation out at all. That's when I grabbed the phone from my mother and talked to Ian. I told him he most likely sold me a sick snake and he replied,"That's b********, all my snakes are cb." He had an attitude since he did not want to have negative feedback posted. Ian talked to me for a while asking how i kept my snake. I told him my snake was in a rack by itself, in another room, on newspaper with a water bowl and the hot side at 88, cool side around 84. He told me to keep it generally around 86. I then went on and told him that my snake would not eat the mice I offered him, and then he told me that all their snakes are fed live rats. He told me the snake might not have eaten in a little while if it defecated in the strange way it was doing. I told him I was going to bring the snake the the vet because I didn't want the snake dying on me in case something was truly wrong with it. He told me if anything was wrong, he would work something out with me at the next show or to just call him some time. I hung up with him and scheduled an appt. with one of the best vets that specializes in reptiles around my area. I then tried feeding the snake a live rat two or three days later and the snake would not eat for me. I also noticed after he drank from his water dish, he would drool. When I took the snake to the vet, just to visit with a new animal was $65, took a fecal exam for $35, and then dewormed the snake for $17. There was even a good amount of blood in the fecal matter when he made the snake defecate in front of me and told me that it's not supposed to be like that, bloody and all. There was also a lot of flagellates he was worried about in the fecal matter. The vet told me that he would call me as soon as he got the results in from the lab. He almost thought it could have been crypto. But when I got the results, of the fecal exam he told me my snake had hookworm, but the deworming should have gotten rid of it. The vet told me he would be getting a liquid form medicine in for my snake because the snake was still sick. Once i bought the metronidazole suspension, which was another $20 added onto the vet bill. A few days after i treated my snake, he seemed to be defecating solid-like fecal matter, not like he was doing before. I offered him a live mouse since it was all I had at the time and he went for it right away. I also watched him drink and he did not drool at all like he did before when he "wasn't sick"...riiight. I sent an e-mail to Outback Reptiles informing them that I now had proof that the snake they sold me was sick to start with. I never got an e-mail back.

I just attended the White Plain's show today and boy was it an upset. I brought my snake because he did say I could probably switch it for a different snake at the next show if he really did sell me a sick snake. Too bad I didn't record talking on the phone with him because we all know what untrustworthy people do if a deal isn't written out on paper. That's why I wanted him to e-mail me back. I would have had a typed document. Oh well, let me tell you how today went. I went to the reptile show with my girlfriend and we were expecting to buy again from Ian as long as we were promised a 100% healthy snake and would knock off a nice fraction of the cost because of all the trouble I went through with the spider I bought from him and that the bills totaled up to practically $140 for a $200 snake I purchased from Ian. I forgot to add in the snake I originally bought was a tiny bit thin when I bought him, but it didn't seem like anything serious. This time I went looking for a nice fat healthy snake and found a female jungle pastel he had for $200. I asked to talk to him, he pulled me aside because he obviously didn't want any of his customers to freak knowing I had bought a sick snake from him. He explained flagellates to me, and was nice and all, but did not talk about how my snake got hookworm. I then asked what he could do for me price-wise on the $200 female, thinking he could at least take off $100, I mean breeders usually take off $50 or even more when you ask for a better price on a snake priced $200 and up. I mean maybe he could be a nice guy and let me pay the difference from my vet bills, but I didn't have my hopes set that high. He said $160 was the best he could do. I told him I'd think about it and walked away, pissed off. I was pissed because he was taking that percentage off for anybody who was asking to buy a snake from him. I was there watching him sell snakes for a pretty long time. I then walked away in disgust, but my girlfriend approached him while I wasn't there and tried to get a better deal on the snake or at least trade in my snake I originally had bought from him for one of equal value because she knew I was upset. He told her no and that it was my fault that I went to an overpriced vet. He said that him or any of his staff would not have recommended seeing a vet, and to just talk to them first. Seriously? I just talked to him on the phone after the last reptile show and I told him I was going to a vet, and I had to get back to him with the status of my snake. Once I heard he was pretty much calling me stupid for taking my sick snake I bought from him to the vet, I was furious. I went back up to his table and just stared at him and his snakes for a good 10 minutes because I didn't even know what to say to him. He was making some comments to customers near me that there were some "tough guys" at this show, obviously relating to me because I wanted to be reimbursed for the money I spent just to get my snake back to normal. He asked me if I needed to see anything, I replied "no." He then asked if I wanted to talk to him behind his little table again so the customers won't be scared away after knowing I bought a sick snake from him. Why would I want to hide from all these people that he sold me a sick snake? I don't want other people to buy sick snakes from him, but whatever I can't stop them. I stood there just staring at his snakes for another 5 minutes or so and he asked if I was going to stand there all day, trying to be wise. I then asked him why he sold me a sick snake and then he started to get angry because there was a crowd at his table and they heard me. I don't even remember what he said after I asked him. It was just something to try and cover up what I asked. He then started to get wordy and try and make me feel stupid for going to the vet once again. I replied to him "I can't wait to post some nice feedback for you on the internet" and then he flipped out on me. He then cursed me and my girlfriend out and called her some thing stupid. I got aggravated, probably cursed back at him and went down his table and told the customers not to buy from him because he sold me a sick snake and didn't help me out at all because it was my fault I bought a sick snake from him knowing it was sick? yeahhh...becuase I would really love to add a sick snake into my collection. He had to of known something was wrong with my snake when he sold it to me at the prior show because it was around 310 grams when I bought it and all of these spiders at this show that he had were nowhere near the $200 range from what I saw. Mainly $325 and up starting with the tiny spider balls. Oh well. I left out of anger with my girlfriend and told the security or whoever was head of the show that I had a problem with him because of what just happened. I really don't see how he is getting main stage with his reptiles if he is going to be that unprofessional and scream/curse out his customers that are unsatisfied with him in front of all his other customers. What a scum. Just wanted to get that out there.

Oh and by the way, I did come back in minutes after I left because I forgot I needed a few live rat pups before I went back home. I talked to a few other breeders about Ian acting out like he did with me and it didn't surprise them at all. I wish I knew he was lying to me from the start with the talking on the phone about trading in my snake for another one at this show. My mother did come in and had a talk with him because she thought it was wrong what he did to me. He apologized to her saying, yeah he was sorry for acting the way he did towards me, but he said he's not so much sorry to my girlfriend because she was snippy? All she was trying to be with him was reasonable after what I paid in vet bills, all he wanted to do was sell me a snake at a price he'd sell to anyone else? even yet, he wouldn't take back my snake that he said he would let me trade in for another snake? Oh but after I left and got back in my mother's car, he told her I could bring back my snake in and exchange it for a new one...after all of that? blowing up in my face and all in front of everyone? thanks but it's a little late now. And he told her if I was really to post bad feedback about him on the internet, he wouldn't want to do business with me again. HAHA right...like I want to do business with him again. Forget it. Thanks a bunch Ian for my horrible transaction I had with you. I left with some rat pups,crickets,2 free tix to come back to the next wp show,and a pissed off girlfriend...he ruined my day. Once again I will never deal with him again and I hope that he does not get the same main stage setup at the other shows because he definitely doesn't deserve it. I really hope he's done selling sick reptiles at shows...

I was at Ian's table during this event and while I do not know the history of what happened between you two, I do remember that you had an attitude from the very start of the conversation with Ian. I'm assuming that you were the emo dressed kid with the squat little girl next to you? I don't remember Ian going off on anybody else at least.

As far as I could glean from your bricks of text, Ian made it very clear to you that he did not feel that your problems with your ball python were his responsibility due to poor husbandry on your end, but he still tried to be accomodating and told you he would work something out at the next show. All I saw at the show was you demanding he give you a better deal than what he was offering, even despite your poor attitude. You seem to have neglected to mention the half price offer Ian gave you on a new spider.

Ian probably called you back behind the table because he would rather have a coherent conversation with you rather than listen to you shouting to his customers that he sells sick snakes, or engaging in staring contests. Having your girlfriend and your mother come to stand up for you doesn't really help when you are just going to act immature in the first place.

As for captive bred ball pythons with hookworms... During your conversation you said something about your "extensive" bearded dragon collection. I think that shines some light on the hookworm situation right there.

You mentioned several times that Ian would have given "anybody" that price on his ball python. Then why was it marked for $200 on the table?

I am also just throwing out that the "tough guy" he was referring to was not you, the 5 foot 6 kid with hair past his eyes, but the impatient 6 foot 7, hulked out latino guy standing next to you trying to work a deal out with Ian while you were hovering around him and pouting.

My experience with Ian is that he will do his best to make everything work out for everybody involved, and if you are cool to him he is a great guy. If you act like a baby and have your little girlfriend act "snippy" towards him, he won't go out of his way to be especially nice to you back. If I had a little puppy chasing me around like that I would have tossed a krispy kreme off the stage to get her off my back, but Ian was probably busy with his tables so I will forgive him for not thinking of it first.

Anyways, I guess it is you that I can thank for the estrogen entourage fighting your battles while you practiced your zoolander "blue steel" staredown. In my opinion it's always great to get more women involved in the hobby,

So thanks for the enjoyment during the slow lunch hour!

-Mike Schultz

are you referring to me the latino that was working for a deal on the albino?????

I doubt Ian was at fault, because I bought my albino from him and he ate as soon as i got home and gave him a rat. (waiting on the poo)

Ralph:

If Ian sold you a sick snake with worms, why would you want to go to another show with the intention of buying another snake from him?

Ian / OutBack Reptiles have been a regular vendor at the White Plains Reptile Show for several years and they have literally sold thousands of reptiles there.. I have a couple of animals from Outback in my collection and i know dozens of people that have purchased from them over the years and I have never heard one complaint about their animals, their prices, or their business practices.

I was at the show all day yesterday. I did not personally see your interaction with Ian, but i heard about it from some of the other vendors. I was very surprised because I have never once seen or heard of Ian losing his cool with customers in the past and i am at every White Plains show.. But, after reading your post stating that you loomed around starring at Ian and trying to push away potential customers and having your mom and girlfriend deal with your business, I can easily see why he would get upset with you...

The fact that in this hobby is we buy and sell LIVE animals.. and, sometimes things go wrong. If your not happy with your dealings with Ian and his offer to help you out on your replacement animal there is NO need to cause a scene and bring your girl and your mom to do your fighting for you.. In the future you can simply move on to one of the other 250 vendors at the White Plains Show..

Just my opinion!!!

~ Mike Russo

I have never met Ian in person, but I have recently bought some snakes from him to have shipped to me. The whole process went down great; in fact, one of the snakes was twice the size as advertised, probably worth more than I paid for.

And of course, he seems to have a pretty decent reputation.

All other things aside, I would assume that after the phonecalls, he did at some point, entertain the possibility that he may have sold you a sick snake, and was willing to reciprocate. Asking you to speak behind his booth behind close curtains is not unreasonable; of course, he didn't want you to spout off to the world that he sells sick snakes to everyone. It is simply not true (if not anyone else, the snakes I bought from him are testament to the contrary). It sounds like he tried to give you a discount off that secind BP, but apparently it wasn't good enough for you.

IMHO, you have nothing to complain about. He offered to give a better deal on a second animal, and you refused. What else can he do? Perhaps one day, when you start your own business, you'lll better understand where these guys come from.

Ralph, could you please post vet reports on the Spider?

For what it's worth, here is my experience with one of Ian's animals.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=downhill+fast

Yet again, people are bending over backwards to defend a name. The thousand good snakes the guy sells don't make up for the times where he did clearly drop the ball. It's not too hard to understand why the kid would be pissed. He ended up with a bum snake and all the seller was willing to do is give a lousy $40 discount on another snake. That doesn't even begin to cover the vet bills incurred. Unless the OP is flat out falsifying parts of his story, I don't see how the kid really deserves the treatment he got from the seller or from some posters here. And to make fun of the girlfriend and call her names..that's just WEAK.

Im probably going to get crucified for this, but would it be possible that there is a slight bias towards Ian from most of you here? Great breeder or not, it IS possible that one time out of thousands he actually sold a sick snake, and didn't react appropriately? Im sure that Ralph probably assisted in making a good guy go "bad" with his staredown and calling out the "troops", but if there is evidence that a sick snake was sold and if Ralph is telling the truth, then IMHO Ian should have taken the snake back and offered another after the initial conversation, based off of what you folks here on the BOI advise other people. From what I have learned here...if a breeder misrepresents an animal, sells the wrong animal, sells a sick animal, or ships a reptile that is DOA, it is up to them to correct the situation by way of refund or exchange if it is reported in a timely manner and with evidence.
I DISAGREE completely with Ralph's decision to make this a "Bad Guy" thread, I believe it should've been more an "Info" thread, and he definitely acted immature. But if everything is true, Ian definitely couldve fixed the issue after the first phone call. And FYI Ralph, to have your mother call and "make" like she is gonna leave bad feedback to get a reaction IS not good business ethics on your part as the buyer.

In spite of this thread, I would still buy from Ian as I have only heard good things until now, and things happen with animals that are beyond our control. My 2 cents. =]