about siklback and their husbandry

ty,but i do not need to heed anyone's advice when it comes to speaking my mind.we were all newbies at one time but i have researched 3-4 hours a day, everyday, for the past 9 months.everynight i am reading up on bearded dragons and once again i will say IT DOESN'T TAKE AN EXPERT TO KNOW THAT INBREEDING IS GOING ON HERE

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

That is not what I've been trying to say....have you not seen this so called Bearded Dragon??? IT DOESN'T HAVE SCALES!!!! That would be like someone "line breeding" you and your sister so that your children can be born without skin. When have I ever brought up snakes or geckos? If I have, it was in a general statement. But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate. Period. Now if that makes me a person who doesn't belong in this thread, oh well, sucks to be you....you'll just have to ignore me.
While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you. Just because you have been breeding in this manner doesn't mean it is ok or ethical.
I may not have the experience in line breeding but I do have basic intelligence and you insinuating that I or Michele have nothing to bring to the table is wrong. You just don't like what we have to say. And Dennis, I have spoken to breeders that have said that this isn't how they would conduct business. Not every breeder believes in line breeding.....they're just a little smarter then me in coming here.

Inbreeding, which where I come from means 1st or 2nd generation pairing like sibling/sibling crosses, Parent/child, grandparent/grandchild, uncle/niece etc. I always think is wrong. Linebreeding is 3rd or 4th generation pairing, and if done correctly, this can even strengthen a line. There is a great article about it here
What I have serious issues with are people who are breeding to exploit a genetic trait that might have a serious impact on the animal, like the eyeless turtles seen here in an advertisement and bearded dragons without scales.
I can understand why people are passionate about this issue, it doesn't matter who the breeder is or who else might be involved.
Dennis- I'm sorry that your ethics have ever been called into question. I may not always agree with you 100%, but you're definitely one of the good guys.

guess the way some people act in this forum that inbreeding has affected the human race in the area of common sense and metal capacity. What have we here? A group that has somehow morphed into having less brain power then the reptiles. I am deleting this forum from my email as I have better things to do then write or read this kind of ilk-ed literature...

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

I understood his comment completely, and did not see it as aimed at you, however hard one tries to make it seem that way. Dennis is nothing but Upstanding, and he does not just make remarks to make them without the facts.

I saw it as sarcasam at best, to a newbie owner trying to get their foot in on something they do not even fully understand. Assumptions dont fly well here at fauna, and ive learned my lesson at that. others should heed that advice

Yes, I now know that. After it hit me upside the head like a ton of bricks, I PMed Dennis apologizing. I have been super emotional, and have had attacks coming from every direction, not that it excuses my behavior to Dennis. Someone very wise once told me to never ASSume, and I did just that and proved that very wise someone right.

Dennis, I understand what you are saying that line breeding is done all the time, to establish and prove out lines. I also understand that line breeding can be done correctly and incorrectly.

I think the main concern as far as the inbreeding that took place to create these animals is that the gene pool for dragons is already so small that it just can't be good to add to that problem.

I think the other concern is that this isn't a simple color morph. This is much more on the lines of a deformity, and people are trying to exploit that.

This isn't so much about what everybody else may do, it's that some of us believe doing these things is immoral.

i just have one more thing to say.do all of you really believe how closely they were bred? look how long it took to get an answer out of them.it was all word games.a certain person has been proved to be a liar in the past.thats all folks

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

While it is true, I'm not a geneticist or a biologist but neither are any of you.

You might want to re-evaluate that one, this site has a pretty diverse member base and there are a solid number who do one or both of those professionally and quite a few more who've got all that fancy book schoolin' and the sheepskin to prove it... that just don't generate an income off it.

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

You might want to re-evaluate that one, this site has a pretty diverse member base and there are a solid number who do one or both of those professionally and quite a few more who've got all that fancy book schoolin' and the sheepskin to prove it... that just don't generate an income off it.

I think she was specifically referencing the people that have been active on this thread.

I should add here that this is a conversation that is going on in the bearded dragon community all over the world. If you Google "silkback bearded dragons", you'll see that the people who belong to this forum aren't the only ones a bit disturbed by this development.
On one forum, I actually saw one guy say that all American breeders are crazy for doing things like this, and this morph wasn't created by an American breeder.

But I will definitely go on record stating that I believe that it's against the laws of nature for relatives to procreate.

Do you believe that in the wild reptiles avoid breeding with relatives?

It seems to me that people really, really, REALLY want to find fault with the silkback. So far, all I see is opinions. Some like this morph, and some don't. But so far, there are no FACTS to back up the disgust for this animal. All the questions that can be answered have been answered at this time. So far it seems that the silkbacks are healthy and do not suffer undue distress from their lack of scales. As far as the gene pool being significantly affected by this new morph - I highly doubt it. So can't we all just accept each other's OPINIONS and quit bashing those who have different views from us? Because at this point, I don't see anything factual to fight about.

Jamie