Dragons Den Herp (INFO)

Kevin,
I have not researched all in the thread, but Seamus pointed out that you have a clause that does not allow return of the animal due to color dissatisfaction ? If that is not correct, accept my apologies. If it is true of you, or any other entity who sells with such a clause, much less without a satisfaction guarantee, then I would have to agree with Seamus, and then some. I would recommend to all who read here not to do business with anyone with such an absurd clause. I would recommend that a retail buyer does not buy from anyone without a no-questions-asked (NQA) satisfaction guarantee. It need only be of 24 hour duration, with the customer paying all return shipping, but you have no business vending reptiles if this is the case. Raise your prices 10% etc, if there is a cost to absorb there. On the upside, in the God blessed capitalist competitive market we all survive in, it will make you better.

Originally Posted by dden

When I added saturation to #3, it was to try and match the color chart in my hand to the color chart in the picture...in other words, trying to make the red, orange, yellow, match the same colors on the chart. I figured that, by showing the color on the chart as close to "true" as possible, that would mean that the color on the dragon was also portrayed accurately. I may not be correct in thinking that, but at least it is worth mentioning...

I think that you should stop trying to match your dragons colour to a man-made chart. it's misrepresentation IMO, and, judging by the way your guarantee is worded, it is in yours too.

Regarding color: We expect animals from certain bloodlines to look similar in color to their parents, but It is impossible for us to know exactly what an animal will look as it ages. There are many variables involved in determining a lizard’s color, including light, temperature, mood, color of the enclosure, etc. Because of this, we can not guarantee how a particular lizard will look as it grows and ages.


The above is the portion of Kevins guarantee regarding colour.

Kevins regarding color statement is 100% true.I have breed geckos for 10 years now and still to this day i am not 100% sure how SOME of the baby's will turn out as the age,no one can.
I have known Kevin for many years and bought geckos from him and they allways looked better than the pic.may be not that day but when they were happy in there new home HELL ya.
Kevin is a good guy allways will be.How do we know the person is keeping the dragons they way Kevin did or for that the right way.

Kevin keep up the good work.You are a brother at hart.

The Ground Gecko Freak
Jodi L Aherns

Originally Posted by Jodi L Aherns

Kevins regarding color statement is 100% true.I have breed geckos for 10 years now and still to this day i am not 100% sure how SOME of the baby's will turn out as the age,no one can.
I have known Kevin for many years and bought geckos from him and they allways looked better than the pic.may be not that day but when they were happy in there new home HELL ya.
Kevin is a good guy allways will be.How do we know the person is keeping the dragons they way Kevin did or for that the right way.

Kevin keep up the good work.You are a brother at hart.

The Ground Gecko Freak
Jodi L Aherns

Just because a dragon might color up, doesn't mean that it will, and therefore should not be presented in it's theoretically possible colors by image alteration.

The most a breeder can do, is give accurate unaltered, and correctly white-balanced photos of parents, previous clutches by the same parents, siblings in the same clutch, and the original dragon itself. Then let customers make their own decisions based upon factual information.

Presenting a dragon to customers as the color that they could possibly turn out to be, unless it is guaranteed to turn out that color is fraud, plain and simple.

Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.

This is true. Perhaps on Kevin's computer screen the dragons look realistic. On my computer screen they look neon-bright and obviously tampered with. When I post pictures (all of which are unaltered) of my own dragons for sale, there is a big difference in color from computer to computer. They look great on my computer, and very dark on my husband's laptop. It is frustrating, but I have accept that it is just going to happen that way.

Originally Posted by TripleMoonsExotic

Something that hasn't been mentioned in regards to a reason why adjusting color is a no-no...

All screens are not calibrated the same which means that not all people will view the exact same shades of color when looking at the exact same picture. So while Dragon's Den is adjusting the color of their photos (significantly) to suit what on their screen represents the "true" color of the dragon, it can look completely different on another screen.

There is no excuse to adjust colors, period. If you take the photos properly they will represent the true color (or as close as you're going to get with screen) of the animals in question.

I agree. I have a 6 yr old point and shoot olympus I use to take pics, and it frequently doesn't portray colors accurately. However, I say this in the pic caption, and do not alter the pictures.

I think what Kevin did here is an extreme misrepresentation. If they're as bright as you say they are, then just say: "Pics don't do the animal justice" and don't alter them. If they're as great as you say they are, then you shouldn't have to worry about it.

Plus the wording in your "guarantee" just makes the thing seem fishy. Altering pics and then saying that they can't be returned for misinterpretation is absurd. It appears that you may have tried to intentionally scam unsuspecting customers.

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

Therein lies the problem. The guarantee as written specifically prohibits refunds being issued over color "misinterpretation" Combine that with a dealer who is manipulating the color saturation and hue of photographs and you have arrived at what can only be described as deception. When the photos are tampered with, it is not a misinterpretation on the part of the buyer, who was passive in the determination, but misrepresentation by a lying, scamming dealer- who was actively altering the photos to mislead the buyer.

What Kevin is doing is no more correct or acceptable than the garbage that Vince Russello tried to pull a few years back.

If this manipulation was done and actually portrayed the dragon's accurately, there is NO reason the "orange" dragon Raul got looks like he does. A nice dragon? Sure. A day-glo, fluorescent orange dragon? Not hardly. I don't care what kind of heat or light you put him under, he will never look like the altered picture.

*the dragon's COLOR accurately....

Proofread, dangit. Proofread.