David and Danielle Dedrick AKA simply_vivid@yahoo.com - Dead Snakes

How can you even be in any animal trade if you don't reasonably confidently expect to deliver them alive?

Originally Posted by RedDevil

All four snakes arrived dead the day after he told me they would arrive.

So, when were the snakes actually shipped versus when they arrived? Did they actually take 2 days to ship arrive at your destination from when they were shipped? What was the date of acceptance on the label of the packaged? Were the package even shipped as an overnight package? According to the emails that you posted as I understand them, David said on June 15 that he was going to ship the snakes on June 16 and you said you got them 2 days later, so you received the snakes on June 18?

Being that Ship Your Reptiles/UPS was mentioned as the means of shipping, was Ship Your Reptiles ever notified of this problem if the package did arrive an extra day later than it was supposed to? I would think they would have been the second place I would have called after talking to David to at least try and recoup any losses although they are not liable for any such problem.

When I opened the box I could immidiately smell that there was something dead inside, and all four snakes had already begun rigamortis. I contacted the seller minutes after their arrival and provided him with my phone number.

What was the current temperatures during the time of transit from Texas to Louisiana? If it was hot, were there cool packs placed in the packaging to help keep the snakes cool? If it were too hot in either place, David should have never shipped them in those types of conditions nor should you have wanted to accept snakes in that kind of heat. Actually, I decided to look up the temperature history of both Orange, Texas (the last address I have on record of David's residence) and Slidell, Louisiana (where it says you are from) and according to Wunderground.com, it got up to 90f degrees in Orange, Texas on June 16, the day of shipping and by June 18 in Slidell, it was 97f degrees. In my opinion, this was just too hot to ship without including proper cool packs. And if the snakes got held up an extra day somewhere, who knows what kind of heat they were exposed to.

I would also like to point out the picture of the dead snake being pulled out of what looks like a small ziplock container for the size of the hognose. How cramped were these snakes in the containers and just how many airholes were there. If the snakes got hot and were cramped in too small of a container, I would hypothesize that they could have easily have overheated as well not being able to stretch out and thermoregulate as they might have had they been put in a larger container or bag.

He started off by insinuating that I had killed the snakes myself in order to get a refund, and then went on to suggest that I might have gotten the hogs to play dead for the pictures (which they are clearly not).

After getting the run around, he proceeded to tell me that I was never offered a live arrival guarantee, and that he might consider giving me hatchlings later in the year.

Originally Posted by critical bill

No live arrival guarantee means no live arrival guarantee. If the terms are not available for you to read and clearly understand - its on you to ask about it and clarify it. Then you have to get it in writing, and even then you still have to hope that the seller will actually stand behind his terms of sale.

I agree with Chuck partially on this, but if the snakes were not properly packaged considering the high temperatures and with no cool packs, then I believe the liability lies with David. After all, the deal is, you are paying money to receive live snakes. If the seller isn't doing everything he can to ensure their safe arrival, then he is at fault.

Now as a hypothetical, if he packaged them to the best of his ability and made every effort to ensure their safe arrival and they still died in transit, like the delivery truck broke down en route (which might have caused their being delayed by a day) in the hottest part of the region, then I don't believe that the seller should be held liable for their not surviving the trip.

Hatching time came around, and it didn't look like I was going to get anywhere. Luckily Sam from GBU Enterprises knew about my problem, and when Dedrick tried to purchase snakes from him, he declined and told him he needed to fix our transaction first.

Now was the original ad you responded to one of David's "getting out of snakes" ads? If so, I find that interesting if he's claiming to be selling off his snakes because of his unemployment and yet calling Sam to purchase more snakes. Please inform me if I'm wrong in my understanding of this. Either way, it's not the first time David has posted ads under the false pretense of getting out of snakes or just hognose. I was kind of a victim in his "hurricane/getting out of hognose" sale which I'll divulge a little later in this thread.

Eventually we decided that I would purchase an axanthic 66% het albino for $3,000, the $1,300 would be deducted from that price, and we would exchange in person at Daytona.

This whole thing just seems really really bizarre to me. You spend $1300 with a guy who sends you snakes that arrive dead and gives you a bunch of lip service about how he offered you no "live arrival guarantee" therefore isn't willing to make it right and yet you are willing to give him an extra $1700 for a replacement snake? While I do not know you or how long you've been doing these types of transactions, it just seems like a rookie move to me to give this guy more money for a possible het. Obviously the emails you exchanged with him should have shown his true character of not wanting to make the dead snake transaction right by you. So why would you trust his word on somethings non-visible genetics? If I were in that position, I would have held out for any kind of refund I could have gotten out of David and tried my best to forget ever having dealt with him.

Not long after, I received an email stating his entire collection was for sale (including the axanthic I wanted), and that I could use the $700 as credit or just get a refund. His list said he had 1.3 extreme albinos for $800, so I inquired about those. He replied saying they were sold pending payment.

I love it how everything you keep trying to apply your "credit" towards is always "sold". Doesn't that seem rather suspicious to you as it does to me? I'd be willing to bet that were you to have offered to pay him cash for those animals that they would have been available.

He deleted his ad from Fauna a couple of days later, and has made no new ads trying to sell anything or send me any of my refund.

Was this the ad that I brought up my purchase from David which turned into a verbal war between Justin and I? If so, I saved that whole thread on my computer and can verify that it did indeed state it was David's "getting out of snakes" ad.

I feel that I remained quite civil throughout the transaction, even after a few comments he made both over the phone and through email that were clearly meant to provoke me. I eventually contacted him to (sarcastically) inquire about his sales, and was told I was being uncivil, and that I should "grow up."

Well, I'm sorry that you went through all of this crap and I feel horrible for the poor snakes that had to suffer and die.

I hope out of all of this you have learned some important lessons. The primary one being to ensure that the seller is making every effort to package the animals properly to ensure their live arrival and have a documented agreement regarding any contingencies should they happen.

The other lesson to be learned is how to comprehend when someone is screwing you around and knowing when to cut your losses.

While I will give David some credit for at least refunding you part of your money, he obviously had no intention of refunding the rest despite what he told you. Imagine if you had doled out more money for hets or possible hets that never proved out? After all, possible hets are a gamble anyways and you definitely have no recourse should they not prove out, but with someone like David, can you really take his word for it that these genetics are even possible of being present? By the time you probably would figure out if the genetics for a het or possible het prove out or not, your money and any recourse is long gone. Something worthwhile to think about when dealing with someone you don't know or trust.

It's sad that no-one listened on my 1st post about David.

This guy is my 1st cousin (MOM's sister son). As children we were pretty close..but David suffered a lot of crap as a child , didn't do well in school..etc.. It took it's toll on him and he later in life became very paranoid almost schizo. he's been fired from almost every job he has ever had and seems to blame everyone else for his problems..

Several years ago after living on the streets etc.. I tried to help him out.. he repaid me by breaking into my house I guess to steal my animals. (If this guy has your address be carefull!!)
He later got married and supposedly changed and in his words "grew up" I forgave him like an idiot and tried to help him by sending him large quantities of snakes for him to breed and us to split. We were to share in the babies and I considered most of the animals 1/2 mine if not 3/4 mine in some cases.
Well the 1st year comes and goes and he totally screws up with the animals and doesn't produce a thing..then starts blaming everyone and everything for it..even me..
next thing I know he calls me up says I need to buy out his half...or he will sell them to people I don't want to have them..a cat 4 hurricane hits Orange Tx making things worse(can't remember if it hit before or after his threat maybe before). I sell some animals and part out some projects and raised 10k to "bail him out" he then refuses to sell me my own darn snakes... he tries selling them to other breeders causing a lot of problems between me and other hog breeders...in the end I hired a very expensive attorney and things after which went my way!!
This is my personal experience with David...
he is a liar
cheat
theif

a few days later Dedrick calls Sam looking to buy some Hogs. Sam tells him he will not sell until he gets things right with me

I wonder if this is the same Sam who sold me a 2000.00 red albino that mysteriously died before ship...told me he spent my money and couldn't send it back... and all I got were animals I didn't order...some of which were sick that died etc.. like tricolors hogs ... wonder if thats the same Sam..I think I got maybe 1600 back after I sold some of them that lived...must not be!!

NOT to HOG the thread...but about the live arrival guarantee..

This is my perspective and I think it maybe backed up by law..

When you sell an item and there are no terms listed,even if live there are things that are implied..
for example if you offer an item for sale terms or not isn't there a bit in the Fair Trade Act that discusses "implied" guarantee's ...for example listing an item for sale with no guarantee's implies that you can safley and reasonably after sale provide the product to the buyer in the same condition it was advertised in?? i.e. as in being alive..
Also if you knowingly , cannot reasonably guarantee and/or?? provide an animals safe transport isn't that in essence violation of animal rights laws..

So by nature I don't think that "Live Arrival not Guaranteed" isn't acceptable or even legal!
With this being said what do you guy think is right here?

Where's that scumbag Dedrick? He's been here and read the thread.

Whatchu got to say, schizo-scum?

the voices in your head should be telling you to REFUND THE MONEY.

First of all I do not know either parties involved here. But in my opinion I think the buyer is owed a full refund.

As sellers, we should be the ones taking the risk during shipping. We are the ones making the profits, not the buyer.

The buyer purchased a live animal. It is the seller's responsibility to get that animal to the buyer safely and in a timely manner. I think it is ridiculous when I see people posting ads that say "not responsible for courier mistakes".

I think there is one positive thing that is going to come from this and that is that this piece of shit, (Dedrick), is getting out of the industry.

I hope that everyone reads this thread and realizes that they need to ask the seller for the live arrival guarantee in writing before purchasing anything. Then maybe, just maybe these type of people wont be able to sell a damn snake in this hobby and get the hell out of it!

That is my two cents on this thread.

Paul Wyble at Steel City Exotics.

PS. Justin Mitcham I have seen you posted on here and are following this thread will you please contact me ASAP. Thank you. steelcityexotics@yahoo.com

Its a shame those snakes had to die that way

As sellers we have to deliver a live healthy reptile.

The buyer here is due a total and complete refund....no less.

hey bro !!
Man tried that email address and eventually gave up. Hope everything is ok ..my mails maybe going to your spam folder or somthin..my number is on the site in case you don't get my email or would prefer to call.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

So, when were the snakes actually shipped versus when they arrived? Did they actually take 2 days to ship arrive at your destination from when they were shipped? What was the date of acceptance on the label of the packaged? Were the package even shipped as an overnight package? According to the emails that you posted as I understand them, David said on June 15 that he was going to ship the snakes on June 16 and you said you got them 2 days later, so you received the snakes on June 18?

I may have phrased that wrong. I believe they arrived on the 17th, after I was told the 16th. I have the box at work still, so I will check the acceptance date for you as soon as I get a chance.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

Being that Ship Your Reptiles/UPS was mentioned as the means of shipping, was Ship Your Reptiles ever notified of this problem if the package did arrive an extra day later than it was supposed to? I would think they would have been the second place I would have called after talking to David to at least try and recoup any losses although they are not liable for any such problem.

At first I did not realize he shipped through them, and by the time I found out I was a bit distraught over it and hadn't even thought of contacting them.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

I would also like to point out the picture of the dead snake being pulled out of what looks like a small ziplock container for the size of the hognose. How cramped were these snakes in the containers and just how many airholes were there. If the snakes got hot and were cramped in too small of a container, I would hypothesize that they could have easily have overheated as well not being able to stretch out and thermoregulate as they might have had they been put in a larger container or bag.

The females were pretty cramped (especially the larger one). The male was relatively small, though, so the tub was a bit more roomy. There were about three holes put in each side of the containers.

Here is the large female in the tub:

Originally Posted by Rextiles

Now was the original ad you responded to one of David's "getting out of snakes" ads? If so, I find that interesting if he's claiming to be selling off his snakes because of his unemployment and yet calling Sam to purchase more snakes. Please inform me if I'm wrong in my understanding of this. Either way, it's not the first time David has posted ads under the false pretense of getting out of snakes or just hognose. I was kind of a victim in his "hurricane/getting out of hognose" sale which I'll divulge a little later in this thread.

No, his original ad was just for the animals involved in this purchase. After he agreed to sell me the anery and deduct the $1,300, he backed out on it and then decided to list his entire collection (including the anery) just a day or two later.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

This whole thing just seems really really bizarre to me. You spend $1300 with a guy who sends you snakes that arrive dead and gives you a bunch of lip service about how he offered you no "live arrival guarantee" therefore isn't willing to make it right and yet you are willing to give him an extra $1700 for a replacement snake? While I do not know you or how long you've been doing these types of transactions, it just seems like a rookie move to me to give this guy more money for a possible het. Obviously the emails you exchanged with him should have shown his true character of not wanting to make the dead snake transaction right by you. So why would you trust his word on somethings non-visible genetics? If I were in that position, I would have held out for any kind of refund I could have gotten out of David and tried my best to forget ever having dealt with him.

The cash and snake were to be exhanged in person. At the time, the only anerys I could find for sale were around $3,000 anyway, so by taking the deal it would have essentially been the same as me getting a full refund since I planned on buying an anery regardless.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

I love it how everything you keep trying to apply your "credit" towards is always "sold". Doesn't that seem rather suspicious to you as it does to me? I'd be willing to bet that were you to have offered to pay him cash for those animals that they would have been available.

That's pretty much what I was thinking when it happened. And then he told me I was lowballing him for trying to get the albinos for the price he had them listed at...

Originally Posted by Rextiles

Was this the ad that I brought up my purchase from David which turned into a verbal war between Justin and I? If so, I saved that whole thread on my computer and can verify that it did indeed state it was David's "getting out of snakes" ad.

That ad was him "attempting" to get money for the second portion of my refund. He told me I would get it after the collection was sold, which is why I got a bit aggrevated when he took the ad down and never placed any more.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

Well, I'm sorry that you went through all of this crap and I feel horrible for the poor snakes that had to suffer and die.

I hope out of all of this you have learned some important lessons. The primary one being to ensure that the seller is making every effort to package the animals properly to ensure their live arrival and have a documented agreement regarding any contingencies should they happen.

The other lesson to be learned is how to comprehend when someone is screwing you around and knowing when to cut your losses.

While I will give David some credit for at least refunding you part of your money, he obviously had no intention of refunding the rest despite what he told you. Imagine if you had doled out more money for hets or possible hets that never proved out? After all, possible hets are a gamble anyways and you definitely have no recourse should they not prove out, but with someone like David, can you really take his word for it that these genetics are even possible of being present? By the time you probably would figure out if the genetics for a het or possible het prove out or not, your money and any recourse is long gone. Something worthwhile to think about when dealing with someone you don't know or trust.

Lesson learned. After buying so much online, I took it for granted that live arrival was guaranteed. I used to ask before any purchase, but got a bit too lax about it over time. It also didn't help that I seen his posts pretty regularly on the KS forums, which is the only reason I ignored how he formats his ads and emails. I typically avoid people that make no attempt at writing full sentences (not that my grammar is too good either, to be honest ).