I wanna know about the Jungle.

Originally Posted by mxracer4life

Then I started seeing all of these litters being posted with no supers

where?

inquiring minds would like to know...

Well, I didn't want to point out any names, thread posts or links, but I have seen them on fauna and kingsnake. Just to mention one, there is an ad on kingsnake that has pictures of both parents, which neither appear to be jungle, with pictures of the full litter. The litter just consists of what looks like abberant patterned normals. I know there color comes in later, but they just don't look like jungles. Do you want me to PM the links if I can find them?

I'll go scouting around, was just curious. I would always suspect one parent isn't a jungle if there are no supers, boas *typically* have such large litters the odds should show supers.

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'll go scouting around, was just curious. I would always suspect one parent isn't a jungle if there are no supers, boas *typically* have such large litters the odds should show supers.

Exactly. And its not like I have seen a ton of these litters around. Just a few caught my eye and just made me think. I have been wanting to get into jungles for a long time, before I get started I just wanted to clear up the whole misunderstanding concerning jungles. I am sure this will also be helpful to others looking into breeding for jungles.

In a perfect world, this is what you would expect if I got this right.

Jungle x Normal - 50% jungles, 25% normals and 25% possible jungles, right?

Jungle x Jungle - 50% jungles, 25% super jungles and 25% normals or possible jungles?

Co-Dominance is misused a lot IMO. If a gene shows its presence in a single generation its dominant. If it let's the WT also express itself, it can be incomplete dominant or co-dominant. What distinguishes these two apart, is if you get that third phenotype show up with a homozygous animal.

Dominant or incomplete dominant examples would be hypos and jungles. The key word there is possible. When I hear possible super anything I think Dominant or incomplete dominant.

With a truly codominant mutation the homozygous animals will be so vastly different then the normals and het forms that a novice could pick them out 100%. As an example google motley boa and super motley then do the same for yellow belly BP and super yellow belly. If a mutation does not act exactly like that, then it is not codominant.

As I understand it anyway.

Rick, I took a couple years of upper level biology. You're close, but not dead on. Simple dominant is where there is no true distinguishable difference between the heterozygous and homozygous forms of the gene, as in hypo. An incomplete dominant gene has the phenotypically evident difference between the heterozygous and homozygous forms, as in jungles, motleys, and aztecs.

Co-dominant is where two dominant morphs "co-exist", creating a different phenotype, as in a hypo jungle or any other combination.

Chris

Originally Posted by mxracer4life

In a perfect world, this is what you would expect if I got this right.

Jungle x Normal - 50% jungles, 25% normals and 25% possible jungles, right?

Jungle x Jungle - 50% jungles, 25% super jungles and 25% normals or possible jungles?

I would expect:
jungle x normal = 50% jungles 50% normals
jungle x jungle - 50% jungles, 25% supers, 25% normals

The traits I look for in jungles (not all have to be present of course):
'hole in the head' the round hole in the head spear
line of speckles along the top of the lateral
yellow dorsal color with different lateral coloration
large holes in the saddles or abbarent pattern, esp tail stripes
high orange/pink coloration (esp on lats)
red tint to eyes (the supers much more so)
heavy black outline around the saddles, especially near the tail
along those lines, also a ghosting effect from outside of saddles towards the center

When other morphs get in the mix, especially hypo and albino, it can make it even harder to pick which ones are clearly jungles unless they really stand apart from the siblings.

I agree with the other people that have said the more you see in person, the easier it is to pick out.

and just cause everyone is posting pics, here's some old pics of my two. Male was from a jungle x hypo red group (Matt Crabe produced) and female was from a jungle poss het x red group (Brian Logan produced); the jungle parents trace back to PK from the imported stock. I got the male and then chose the female a year later because she looked so similar but unrelated.

terrible photos but all I have. Can't take recent ones until I buy a new camera. these are 2-3 yrs old. I would consider both of these low to mid expression; together in natural light:


female


male

Those photos show the yellow dorsal coloring I mentioned before perfectly.

Not the best photo but this shows the funky head pattern on the female I posted.

Steve that pattern looks like the candle holder from Beauty and the Beast cartoon with a big flame