what UPS will and will not ship!

hey guys,,,
i applied for a "reptile shipping permit" through UPS and they sent me a questionaire,, and even sent a UPS rep. to my house to see what i am wanting to ship. after a conversation,,,and there Rep even holding a bearded dragon, i had to wait a few days for a "letter of approval".
and I got it today,,,
But it is troubling in some ways,,,
first off,,, the first line reads
" Dear Mr. Regan
UPS does not accept any kind of snake venomous or non-venomous for transportation."
I applied to ship bearded dragons, and the letter clearly states as did my Rep that to ship anything else i have to have an addendum added.( only lizards) anyway i was also told by my Rep that if they open a box and it contains reptiles and you are not an "approved shipper" it will be sent back to you and not delivered. i don't know on what scale they are opening boxes,
but that would really be a bad thing. just wanted to give all of you a heads up,, it took about 10 days to get all this done, and everyone i spoke to had a different story at UPS. not sure if this affects anyone but just thought it might help. I will attach a picture of the top of the letter ( my scanner is broken) so this will have to do for the minute. also if you want the whole letter, email me and i will send you 2 pics with a top and bottom of the letter complete. I did "white out" my ups shipping account number, but other than that the letter is as it came.
also i do have the application sent to me by my Rep, if you would like a copy of it also.

Have you applied for an addendum to ship snakes?
Reason I am asking is because Airborne has been a headache lately and I wanted to get the reptile shipping account with UPS but I will be shipping snakes at times and do not want them returned or confiscated.

Steve,

I think the thing is that UPS does not ship snakes at all. Read that letter again.....

Joe,

i don't know on what scale they are opening boxes, but that would really be a bad thing.

Why is that a bad thing? Even before 9/11, shippers were opening boxes for security or other reasons when they deemed it necessary. That is pretty much part of the shipping agreement when you ship by such a carrier - read the really fine print. I don't think they do it all that often, but they certainly have the right to do so as a private company.

I think it is a pretty darned good thing that they are checking up on things even though I'll admit to having shipped via AirBorne and FedEx, and I don't think they accepted snakes knowgingly...... If you (or I) get caught shipping what we are not supposed to be shipping - it is sort of tough - but they certainly have the right and the obligation to check any packages at random, or because they believe they are apparently mislabelled or suspicious in any manner.

Best regards,
Glenn B

What I mean about it being a bad thing is,,, the animal is gonna get sent back to you ,,, so then you will have to turn around, and ship the animal again,,
what I was reffering to is the fact of how much stress shipping puts on some of the more delicate animals out there,,, and it just another chance of something happening to the animals in question,,, how many "supervisors" will the whole process have to go through for them to decide to ship the animals back to you,,, meanwhile the animals are sitting on some loading dock,, in the heat or the cold,,, ( who knows) . i just don't see how it could be good in any form or fashion,,,

Live animal shipments, should be sitting in temperature controlled areas for the most part when at the terminals. As for them being opened and how many supervisors it takes to determine if the animals will be returned to you - well I could not say, but I can guess. My guess would be one or two, and that would be inside the initial shipping terminal - the UPS building where you dropped off the animal - unless your package is deemed suspicious (and I do mean suspicious for criminal reasons like terrorism) at a transit point. If your box is prperly labelled and says Bearded Dragons, and is then opened by UPS and they find lizards, my guess would be that it gets closed up and shipped. If on the other hand they open the box and find five Green Tree Pythons - guess what - they ship it back to you. Now if it takes five days for you to receive them and they all come back dead - whose fault is that? Why I would think it would be your fault for shipping something that should not have been shipped. If on the other hand they do the same with your legitimate shipment of bearded dragons, for which they sent you the permission letter, then you have one heck of a nice lawsuit.

Bear in mind though that you only stated concern about how many supervisors would have to make up their minds that the shipment was not legitimate and to ship the animals back to you, as opposed to wondering: how many supervisors it would take to determine that your shipment was legitimate and then ship it on to the buyer. As Hercule Poirot would say: 'This has excited the little gray cells...', and this would indicate to me that you already may have it in your mind that some of the animals you plan to ship may not be the ones UPS gave you permission to ship. That, of course, is the criminal investigator in me and comes with 24 years of law enforcement work, from too much novel reading, and too mcuh watching of 'Mystery' on PBS. You may not have meant that at all, but I am often inquisitive - in the manner of the great detectives of fiction, such as Poe's: Monsieur C. Auguste Dupin, Christie's: Hercule Poirot, or Conan-Doyles: Sherlock Holmes - of such little intricacies as how someone expresses what they say. I realize too that people often say things in a manner that others may interpret differently or misinterpret from that which they intended. Please take no offense as none is intended.

As for what UPS wrote in the letter, they are covering the bases, and trying to deter people from taking advantage of UPS and from people violating the UPS rules. I kind of doubt that they make it a frequent habit of opening a shipper's live animal containers - although I do not doubt that they may do this on your first couple of shipments just to make sure. One way to make certain is to seal the box with a distinctive type of tape and ask the buyer if it looks as if it had been opened before he got it. UPS usually reseals boxes with clear shipping tape.

Of course there are the alternatives of: shipping covertly or going through Delta Express. Either of those methods could wind up being more costly and be worse for your business. Shipping covertly because it could get you a bad rep with shipping companies and maybe get you in some sort of legal trouble (although I doubt the second); and shipping by Delta because not many customers are willing to pay those high prices if you are shipping anything that is not extremely high end or in large quantity. I like the fact that you got the permit letter from UPS, it shows you are on the up and up. That is a good thing. Now if UPS checks your shipments every now and then and sees that you are shipping what you said you were shipping, my guess would be that they too will come to the same conclusion: You are an honest businessman and a good customer for them. Good luck.

Best regards,
Glenn B

Glenn,,
You have been watching to many detective shows,, i posted this for others who wanted to know the "ins and outs" of what i found out when i went looking,,
i ship Bearded Dragons,, as it is the only thing i propagate in captivity,,,

I am not taking offense to what you said,, but i don't need you to "pat me on the head" or to question what i ship... i promise you I am the very small minority that have a letter stating it is ok for me to ship what i propagate...
do you have letter saying it ok for you to ship what you ship..?, or are you a "renagade shipper" who "sneaks it by" or do you follow you own advice and
"ship delta dash"?
my whole intent for the initial post was simple,, i had 5 people a day asking me about the "reptile shipping account" so i posted this,,,nothing more,, or nothing less,,,
if you want to go question someone go the board of inquiry,, you will not find one negative thing in the reptile trade about me anywhere,, i do people right, provide them with outstanding customer service, quality fat and happy animals,, and most of all in a very professional manner,,, ,,
thanks..

Joe,

I certainly think you misread my words or at least misunderstood their intent, as it seems you have somehow misconstrued them to be belittling to you. That was not my intent. I pointed out one area that was questionable to me, and made a specific reference to your words, and to why I questioned them. As I thought I pointed out, it is possible I could have misunderstood you - so take no offense. Yet I make no apology for asking what I asked, especially based upon what you wrote prior to my question. Although you say you were not offended, I think it pretty obvious that you were at least somewhat offended based upon how defensive was your last reply, and on how you try to make me possibly look like some sort of bad guy - your word was renegade.

To answer your question, I ship by various methods on the rare occasion that I actually ship. I have never used UPS. I have used fed Ex and Airborne (and I was not that sneaky as the container was labeled live animals and had the species name on it - the guy at the counter said he did not want to know as long as it wasn't dangerous - go figure). Most of the animals I sell are at shows or in local deals. Yet I will, as plainly advertised on my homepage, ship overnight express, and am no saint about it. I let my clients choose the carrier (as long as shipping is not illegal such as snakes by the US Post Office). I have never had a client purchase one of my low end snakes and ask for shipping via Delta Dash, because as I pointed out in my last post, it is too expensive. By the way I never suggested you use Delta Dash - maybe you ought to read again what I posted. All I did was pointed out an alternative as part of the discussion. Heck, I even said that I believed was too expensive. .

What I did do was to compliment you on your acquisition of a permit. I found that laudable. My guess is that is what you considered patting your head (believe me it is not my style nor my preference to pat a man's head)! Actually that was a compliment. Do you have a problem with receiving compliments, or is it just a problem because I raised a valid question based upon your own words - and that the question was about your possible intent? If you would like me to explain in detail why I believe it was a valid question, I will gladly do so, but I do assure you the question was brought up because of how you phrased your answer.

You did not have to get upset; a simple answer saying you only ship Bearded Dragons would have been sufficient. Then I would have said, whoops I guess I misunderstood what I construed as possibly being one of several choices of how to interpret the intent of your words. Actually my questioning nature comes not so much from the mystery novels or shows, but from my job (although even that probably came about because I have always been the inquisitive type). I really am a criminal investigator (Special Agent BICE/DHS). I often key in on apparent inconsistencies in what people say and often - as was the case with you in this specific event - it turns out that the apparent inconsistency was nothing more than a misunderstanding on my part. What can I say, I am not perfect in my inductive or deductive reasoning; but without asking the question how would I have found the answer! Whether or not I was in error on seeing what you said as an inconsistency - I was not, in my opinion, in error to question what I had perceived. Because I questioned it, you replied. I appreciate your candor in your answer, and you answered me satisfactorily, although somewhat overly harshly, as far as I am concerned. For your info, I did not really think you were being dishonest, but your words themselves raised the possibility that you may have intended to ship more than that which your permit allowed. To not raise the question, once I had thought of it would be not in keeping with my character. If anything I live true to myself (my character) so when in doubt I ask questions; and when someone questions me I give answers. After all, discussions like this are one of the surest ways to learn about one another. I do try to select my words very carefully, and without letting emotions take over too much when I write in these forums - though I am not always successful - sometimes I get pretty fired up. I do try to plainly express myself by writing what I mean because I cannot see you, nor you me and I want to be sure that what I write is what I mean so as not confuse anyone. Sometimes I think that gets misunderstood as me being holier than thou; and that is not my intent unless I specifically say so. If I had meant that with you, I think you would be really upset because I would have made it extremely plain. I do not hide behind implication. If in my opinion I had thought you dishonest, I would have said so plain and simple - I would not have asked you about what you said. Instead, because I had a question, I asked. It may not have seemed like a nice question, but as I said I based it on what I read in your post - and I asked about it to clear things up for me. That is why I said no offense meant. As for your answer, I believe you, no reason to doubt you. I hope that this sufficiently explains my initial intent to you. As I said before, please take no offense, none was ever intended.

Best regards,
Glenn B

Glenn,,
well let me give you a little about me,, I am the manager of a Multi million dollar yacht company,, there are literally 300,000 to 4 million dollar contracts that come across my desk in the my real job.. and i have never been questioned about my ethics,, or my job performance in million dollar deals,,, so i guess it did catch me the wrong way, when you started asking me about something as petty as my motives behind my remarks,,, ( in the first post). i am a very easy going guy,, but i try real hard to do things the right way,, and give people more than they ask for,, I like to wow people when they get my animals,,, i try and go the xtra mile for people so they are happy for dealing with me,, i have tons of repeat customers,,, and my dragons are not cheap,, actually mine are usually a lot more expensive than most,, but i keep hearing the same thing form my customers..." best money i ever spent" me and my partner raise dragons first and foremost because we love the animals,, and to provide really high quality animals to those who choose to do business with us,,
it is just kinda hard to have anyone question anything i have or have not done,, if they have not done business with me, have personal knowledge of me,, or especially when there are no negative remarks anywhere in the reptile world about me,,
and for you in case you are wondering if i really work for a yacht comapny i am enclosing apic of my business card,, i am covering up the phone numbers etc,, but i think you get the idea,,
hope this clears everything up for you Glenn,,,
no hard feelings,,

Someday, I too may own a mansion and a yacht but not on my government salary! Must be an inyteresting job with lots of interesting clients. I just want to know, do you get to test drive the yacths? Some of the ones I have seen up this way are pretty impressive, although I have to admit to being more impressed by an all female crew I once saw that was on the yacth of a guy who was about 90. What a man!

Sounds to me like you do some interesting stuff. As for your reputation, I was not really questioning that honest, I ahve only heard good things in posts I ahve seen about you. Sorry if it seemd that way.

Best regards,
GlennB