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Old 07-09-2005, 04:33 PM   #91
crazycorn
I still feel I was jumped on a bit too harshly, yes I could have presented my post better but some of you like to protect 'big names' and many people can see this its not just me. Yes I may be young but I can hold my own and it does not automaticly deem me a lesser on the forums than any of you. I am glad to see people are finally coming out of the wood works on this. Many of you act less mature than me at times. But I am done now...
 
Old 07-09-2005, 04:56 PM   #92
Jim O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary O
As you seen man Jim O got upset at me for questioning his 5 foot will kill you thing. But he did not read the whole post. But in this very thread he belittled the origanal poster.

It is the way some are man. I wish it were different.

But I agree Dave said he was sorry and more then once. But still getting slammed about his age. he is a memebr of my site TRR and I will say that he is a great member and very polite.
Actually, this was the sequence Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
Okay, I WAS WRONG on NERD supporting voids and saying they do so, I truely sorry to KAra and Kevin. Yes I should have contacted them first, as we all know being up late at night does help us make good choices. I am also sorry for aounding cocky as someone has mentioned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Dragons
Now that my young friend, is showing some maturity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O
Yes it is. I am almost tempted to give him postive rep points for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
I will admit to making mistakes, trust me we all make them and I have made plenty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O
Yes we all have. Actually there is a quote from someone here and I cannot remember who said it but it has stuck with me since I read it the first time. It goes something like "an error is not a mistake unless you don't learn from it". Quite apt IMO
I think I pretty well let him off the hook. And actually, I made the fourth post in this thread (David made the first two so it was only the second response), asking him for context for the photos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O
David,

Do you want to give us some context on these photos?
And I drew no conclusions until he admitted he had no context. And that, my dear friend, was the issue with the post. So to say that he was criticized for the content before questions were asked is perhaps an overstatement, unless you consider stealing copyrighted material, something to which he admitted, OK. I do not. My guess is that you would not like your material used without permission.

As for the "buddy system" yes it works if it is used. Proper handing of hots works well if it is used also. I know many people who live alone and who keep large constrictors and do not use it. My original point was that the way these animals were handled is NOT the only problem. Someone carrying a large burm around their neck at ANY time, whether at a show or at home is plain stupid IMNSHO. That was my point.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 05:10 PM   #93
JuliusSqueezer
Jim Jim Jim. If you cannot simply reach up and unwrap a 5 foot carpet python from your own neck when it is squeezing too hard...YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS KEEPING REPTILES The whole carpet python saga seemed a bit dramatized. I agree though about large burms although burms tend to hang rather loosely compared to other boids unless a feeding response is a factor...I actually had to walk next door to get a neighbor to help me get an 8 foot tiger ratsnake off my neck once. He had tied his tail in multiple knots and I was just stuck! lol. ...blasted extra long prehensile tail... I never considered myself in a life threatening situation though and I'll pit an 8 foot tiger rat squeeze against a 5 foot carpet any day.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 05:18 PM   #94
JuliusSqueezer
And about context....this has really been eating at me. Under what conceivable context would photos of children petting cobras be acceptable? A picture says a 1000 words. That may be cliche' but it fits here. Just the mere fact that they held such an event and then posted photos on their website...no "context" can downplay the horror of such a scene.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 05:22 PM   #95
crazycorn
Jim does it have to be spelled out for you?
Quote:
Lol...

You still do not get it. There is a very important lesson to be learned here. When you make accusations about people it is YOUR responsibility to prove your own accusations to be true. Not ours.

Anyway, after seeing Kara's post I hope this lesson sank in a little bit. This thread should never have been started.


Paul Sage,

Sorry dude but at 16 he is more than old enough to know better. My 10 year old knows better. It seems to me that he thought he had a sure fire hot topic and could not wait to see the fireworks start. Only it blew up in his face.

Lesson learned I hope.
Lets not forget this one......
Quote:
You're right Sammy. I see that now. At first when I saw "crazycorn" I was thinking of "corncrazy" who is someone I had a very pleasant transaction with. I thought that he was maybe their kid or something, so I was a little biased when I posted about granting him some leniency.

He has certainly dug himself a hole here, and when you light fireworks off inside a pit, they're bound to "blow up in his face". Some people just want to make waves, and then sit back and hope the tsunami that results doesn't flood their way. Lol... so now he's lighting fireworks off inside a flooded hole that he dug himself! Don't you just love expressions?
Lets not forget this one......
 
Old 07-09-2005, 05:28 PM   #96
crazycorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer
And about context....this has really been eating at me. Under what conceivable context would photos of children petting cobras be acceptable? A picture says a 1000 words. That may be cliche' but it fits here. Just the mere fact that they held such an event and then posted photos on their website...no "context" can downplay the horror of such a scene.
They are just mobbing me to protect NERD, you do not need the context for those photos I was surprised when they asked for it.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 05:42 PM   #97
crazycorn
BTW... Thanks for all the good comments and back up from everyone through posts, PM's, and Emails. It is a bit rough on young person that is passionate about reptiles to go through stuff such as bashing and belittling from people you are supposed to be able to look up to.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 06:04 PM   #98
Jim O
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer
And about context....this has really been eating at me. Under what conceivable context would photos of children petting cobras be acceptable?
None at all. I have said from the get go that the pictures were disturbing. My problem was that the thread was titled "NERD supports Voids and plays with them" when all that I, and I repeat I, saw was people in a photo do just that. As I said, and if you look at this thread closely you will see that I said it, those t-shirts are available for sale to the general public. Since I, and I repeat I, do not know the staff at NERD, the people wearing those shirts could have been anyone. If that context had been provided this thread would likely have gone a very different way. Had David said "these photos were taken at a NERD event at NERD and the two people wearing the NERD t-shirts are frick and frack who work there and/or own the place that would have been context enough. But as they were presented, all we had were some disturbing photos and no context.

When David was asked for context, his answer was for people to look it up themselves.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 06:09 PM   #99
Rebel Dragons
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
Telling me what 'I should have done' isn't going to change anything..... Oh well... I am still waiting to hear from them.. Prove it to me I am wrong and I will ADMIT I am wrong.

Here he states he will admit he was wrong if he needed too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
Thanks for clearing it up, I was wrong, you may not presently support voids, but that IMO was down right wrong and could have been very serious as many others think also.

Yes, you were wrong. You owned up to it and stated you opinion that you feel that what they were doing was wrong. Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
Okay, I WAS WRONG on NERD supporting voids and saying they do so, I truely sorry to KAra and Kevin. Yes I should have contacted them first, as we all know being up late at night does help us make good choices. I am also sorry for aounding cocky as someone has mentioned.
He is David again saying he was worng and apologizing for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrap
There is a very important lesson to be learned here. When you make accusations about people it is YOUR responsibility to prove your own accusations to be true. Not ours.
Another example as to why he was confronted at the beginning of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirenofthestorm
So wait, there's no concern at all over kids free handling voids in the hot forum? At all? Wow.

(And by the way, just in advance, thanks to anyone who gives me negative reputation points for raising a SAFETY concern about a well known breeder.) *rolls eyes*
Here is where the posts start coming in about safety issues concerning the snakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

I think there is a great deal of concern. The issue thus far had to deal with the way the thread was presented without any facts.

NERD has posted that it could have been done in a better manner and I agree with that whole-heartily. I am personally opposed to Voids and I agree with much of Gary’s post that they should be handled in the same way as hots.

And LOL, Your not accusing someone of something and telling people to go find the proof on their own. So, I would not worry about the rep. point thing.
A post saying that the safety issue was not the first topic discussed. And yet another person voiceing concern about the safety issue at the same time.

Still have yet to see anyone saying they support what was going on in the pictures. Let's keep rolling on in the thread shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirenofthestorm
Honestly, I think the pics speak for themselves. The question that pops into my head just by looking at the pics is "Wow, those are either hots or voids. And is either one really appropriate in that situation?"

Now yes, this thread should have a different TITLE, but a poor choice of words should not have overshadowed the content of the thread. How a bunch of self respecting adults let that little nugget slip by them for 8 pages is beyond me. I'm sorry guys, this is not debate school, this is a board for a hobby that gets more bad press than good press, and arguing about the semantics of how an argument was made is kinda bypassing the core issue IMO.
This in my opinion was a great post. However some people don't follow the same procedures as others when they read a thread for the first time. Everyone is going to see a diffrent core topic in some posts. Thats just the way it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
I still feel I was jumped on a bit too harshly, yes I could have presented my post better but some of you like to protect 'big names' and many people can see this its not just me. Yes I may be young but I can hold my own and it does not automaticly deem me a lesser on the forums than any of you. I am glad to see people are finally coming out of the wood works on this. Many of you act less mature than me at times. But I am done now...
Perhaps you were, perhaps you weren't. I don't remeber seeing anyone post you were lesser than anyone else. You opinions hold just as much weight as anyone elses. Sometimes people will agree with your actions and sometimes they won't. Although now that you seem to have a little back up your attitude certainly has changed from the one that was addmitting his mistakes at the start of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer
And about context....this has really been eating at me. Under what conceivable context would photos of children petting cobras be acceptable? A picture says a 1000 words. That may be cliche' but it fits here. Just the mere fact that they held such an event and then posted photos on their website...no "context" can downplay the horror of such a scene.
WHERE DID ANYONE SAY IT WAS ACCEPTABLE????

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
They are just mobbing me to protect NERD, you do not need the context for those photos I was surprised when they asked for it.

Theres the change we were seeing. Want to retract your apolgies now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycorn
BTW... Thanks for all the good comments and back up from everyone through posts, PM's, and Emails. It is a bit rough on young person that is passionate about reptiles to go through stuff such as bashing and belittling from people you are supposed to be able to look up to.
Trust me David, you were not bashed. You got nothing more than a flesh wound on this topic. Your passion is enough to drive you onto bigger and better things. However your passion is just might have been what you were trying to do when YOU let's say started "bashing" NERD over the pictures taken at one of their events. Also I never once read anywhere about having to look up to people on this site. Sounds like a personal issue to me.

And for the record I am not defending NERD. If I ran over a member of NERD with my car I wouldn't have a clue who they were. I am opposed to voids being around children just as I am pythons and constrictors. All are deadly in their own way. Some more than others but still deadly.

What I am opposed to is people starting threads by using an opinion as fact. That is where all the "open ended" opinions start trouble because there is no fact behind anything said.
 
Old 07-09-2005, 06:15 PM   #100
Jim O
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer
Jim Jim Jim. If you cannot simply reach up and unwrap a 5 foot carpet python from your own neck when it is squeezing too hard...YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS KEEPING REPTILES The whole carpet python saga seemed a bit dramatized.
Do you know how much unilateral carotid sinus pressure is required to cause bradycardia and syncope? Evidently not as you don't likely know enough anatomy, physiology, or vocabulary. I, on the other hand, have a medical degree and practiced clinical medicine for 17 years so let me help you. The carotid sinus is a collection of nerve endings in the carotid artery. Pressure on the carotid sinus typically results in a slowed heart rate (bradycardia). In some cases, it is sufficient to cause syncope (fainting or loss of consciousness) rather quickly. In fact, in some people with carotid sinus hypersensitivity, a quick turn of the head can result in loss of consciousness. Now imagine a 5 foot constrictor getting a good press on someone like that. It can happen. You want to argue the medical likelihood? Go ahead and do it. But you'd be wrong to say it cannot happen. Because it can, even in a relatively healthy person. That is why I cringe when I see or hear of people allowing constrictors on or near their necks. In the case of the individual in question, I suspect this may have been what happened as he was going down pretty quickly, long before his airway could possibly have been compromised
 

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