Trans x trans?

Originally Posted by spyder79

Tom

For the sake of a good discussion I have a quandary for you. So breeding a directly bred trans line to another trans line (such as was mentioned earlier where a phantom trans was bred to a bbank trans) causes fairly severe issues within the offspring of the pairing. But if you breed a trans to a het or a het to a het and then breed one of the visual trans offspring to another visual tran offspring from a different het to het pairing would it then allow for a much higher survival rate of the offspring or do you feel you would still see the high mortality rate in the clutches (granted I think all but one dieing had a lot more to do with a very genetically weak set of parents and possibly some other issues).

Well, I have been breeding them for 3 yrs. they have been in this country for, 5-6 yrs? So i am sure all that het to het from two clutches have been done. And its not enough time. But that gene is way past that stage.

Its also not so much a mortality rate. sometimes your talking about............ physical complications. Its why i want Matt to answer my question. He said he crossed a Trans to Trans. Maybe he would like to share his results.
i mean you can cross a trans to a normal, het nothing. and still have problems. its just in the gene! Dont get me wrong there are healthy translucent males and translucent females here that have 100% hatch and they all live, NO issues. Thats why there here. Certain gene's are weaker than others. some translucents have certain genetic issues. an when you take two genetic traits, with issues,(doesnt have to be just trans, just more prone to problems) then cross them together your creating more problems. you made even the healthy babies in a group like that "weaker" by crossing two weak lines. So your now going backwards.

I think the trans line has come along way. Awhile back the trans use to be like a dirt color brown, black eyes and milky scales, long, slender and skinny.
Now you have all kinds of different trans genes. trans, hypo trans, trans leatherbacks translucent silkbacks and hypo trans silkbacks. And there healthy. There more filled out. a stocky build oppose to a long and slender build. Not only that there in color! Yellow, orange, and red. So all that wrapped into a "weak morph". It pretty damn good. And its only getting better.

Attached a few pics of different morph translucents.
reg trans
trans leather
trans silkback

Tom

There are still problems with pairing Trans X Trans together. A friend did just that and has lost some for no apparent reason. They have also experienced a baby that came out with visual defects and it also died. Most of the rest are also showing issues that are showing um odd behavior and aggression. The line still needs some work before Trans X Trans can be paired and have health babies. The breeders also came from different breeders, but this still happened.
And Tom, you make me ill with those pictures! You big show off! LOL

Your not kidding when you say they have come along way this is one of joshes dragons i purchased last year.

He's 22 inches and 800+ grams citrus trans. the pic does him no justice on his yellow color but is nice and bright patern less.

22 inches and 800+ grams!! O.O He's one big healthy boy! Congrats on him!

Tom,
Im not trying to really defend myself here as i am still new and ignorant to some things,However i also said that this was 3 or so yrs ago and as you said they have only been around for few yrs, so not only was i really new in breeding as i have only bred for 5 yrs now and owned for 8 but i was extremely ignorant then.
I didnt do as well as i could have as i was young and dumb.
However i have strived to learn as much as i can in this hobby witch is why i call from time to time and also talk with alot of others such as sunshine dragons and even have called and chatted with th dichu's a time or 2.
I by no means are good friends with them (would love to be though) lol
But i call alot of people with questions and am always up for corrections.

Im very happy this thread was started cause i dont seem to be the only person confused with this
Thanks all for the info and comments
Hit me up soon Tom i would like to actually talk about a few things with ya then on genetics.

Originally Posted by Omnomnami

22 inches and 800+ grams!! O.O He's one big healthy boy! Congrats on him!

Thank you

I don't think even Josh was expecting him to get this big. I hand picked him from a group a few months later he had some really big growth spurts and there be is.

This is my Trans x Trans baby Sweet Pea, I've yet to noticed a thing wrong with her, and she's growing extremely fast, my mom is shocked at how much bigger she's gotten each time she sees her. I wanna say she hatched mid march...


Give her a few crickets and she's a very happy girl

This is one of her siblings at about 4 weeks also:


There use to be a thread with a picture of daddy on it "Orange and green tiger translucent male PROVEN" but the pictures are gone.
Someone I dated hatched them, and I'm pretty sure every egg in the clutch hatched without any problems, and none of them died, or had cosmetic flaws of any sort. When I first got sweet pea her eyes weren't all black at about 2 months they filled in, it was only her and 2 other siblings that didn't come out with the all black eyes. I can't remember what the mother was, but her color wasn't spectacular, she was just really sweet, and has since been proven out as het hypo.

Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions

I have only bred a trans to a trans 1 time before i was told the health would be unstable.
I bred a het hypo trans from Phantom dragons with a Trans from Bloodbank
and i only had 1 babie live out of 28 eggs.
All but 4 hatched and most didn't last past the first week.
However 1 babie did survive and it was not a visual trans ?
.

Exactly what question did you want anwserd again Tom
Sorry lil confused lol.
So far in my 5 yrs of breeding i have only had this 1 clutch all die ?
So im not 100% sure why they all but 1 died.
I sold the tranz dragons not because the babies died but because i was to inexperianced to want to keep killing babies and doing the wrong things so i sold them till i was more educated in trans and breeding in general.
Again i have never had any probs incubating or raising dragons as babies.
Only other time i had a prob is when i had a female that was agressive that i bred only to have all the babies darn near eat every other babie.
All 34 babies ended p w nips some extream 1 even was killed when tried to swallow another babie and choked when he got half way down.
I fed them all well and even had no more than 5 babies per tank in 1 time.
I was later told it could have ben due to the agression in the mother to begin ??
Thats 1 question i had for you Tom.
Is agression or attatude passed from parent to babie.?
Matt

Wow. I've never heard of a baby trying to eat another baby. It does sound like they got the evil gene from mom haha.

Originally Posted by Bearded Ambitions

Exactly what question did you want anwserd again Tom
Sorry lil confused lol.
So far in my 5 yrs of breeding i have only had this 1 clutch all die ?
So im not 100% sure why they all but 1 died.
I sold the tranz dragons not because the babies died but because i was to inexperianced to want to keep killing babies and doing the wrong things so i sold them till i was more educated in trans and breeding in general.
Again i have never had any probs incubating or raising dragons as babies.
Only other time i had a prob is when i had a female that was agressive that i bred only to have all the babies darn near eat every other babie.
All 34 babies ended p w nips some extream 1 even was killed when tried to swallow another babie and choked when he got half way down.
I fed them all well and even had no more than 5 babies per tank in 1 time.
I was later told it could have ben due to the agression in the mother to begin ??
Thats 1 question i had for you Tom.
Is agression or attatude passed from parent to babie.?
Matt

If I remember correctly it was me you had that conversation with (cause you allowed me to use the pics of your babies as part of a housing article I drafted up for another site). And I am of the opinion that some personality traits (such as aggression of submissiveness) can be passed down from parents to offspring. But that is my opinion and I have no "scientific" proof of that.