Enough is enough with the classifieds (*or* Why you cannot reply to classified ads)

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Rather than just do the cold turkey approach, I will first limit replies to classified threads so that only paid members can utilize that function.

What a way to Might as well just turn it into a pay to play section again.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Bigger pieces of the problem are the people that jump into someone's ad directing viewers to another seller (or trying to sell their own stuff), the sarcastic comments about pricing, the chatter between other members which is unrelated to the sale (we have discussion forums, chat, and PMs for that), and the piling on that occurs in any number of circumstances. (there are other issues, but I'm trying not to belabor the points and drag this out)

so issue infractions for those type of people. Why restrict those of us that try and play by the rules. I get the feeling that Rich is looking for a low count infraction log... but with a site this big and with the rules in place here... you're gonna have to expect a high count infraction log.

This decision is in response to a clear, and growing, problem. In a recent moderator discussion, every one of us acknowledged the beneficial reasons for allowing posted responses, regardless of our personal preferences. The choice not to pull the plug on responses entirely is because we consider those reasons not only valid, but compelling.

You might as well pull the plug. This is only slightly different from the 'pay to play' aspect this site had in years past. Guess what... when Rich did that this place took a nose dive.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Sorry, but this is likely the core of the problem. The classifieds section is NOT a discussion section. It is intended for members to buy and sell their animals and merchandise.

But if your discussing the animal in question... what's the problem unless the seller asks the discussion to be stopped. If the seller is ok with it... it should be allowed. I don't know how many times I have been able to learn something new about a species I was interested in because of a little Q&A on that particular ad.

It should be up to the seller to put a stop to things... not the government of Fauna. How is this any different than our very on US gov force feeding us what they want us to have?

Yes Rich... I know this is your site and you can do what you want. But at the same time... Its the US Gov's country and they also think they can do what they want. Just look at what it's doing to the country.

I personally would have preferred to leave the classifieds as they were, hoping that participants would be able to handle such transactions maturely and professionally. But when I saw the classifieds becoming an extremely hostile environment for legitimate business to take place, I really had no choice but to put an end to that sort of nonsense.

So give infractions and actually let it be known when they were given. Then folks will see what's getting them slapped.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

If you see something taking place that you know is illegal in the context of the offering, then you should contact the legal authorities who would have jurisdiction in this matter. It is their responsibility to deal with such issues, and have the authority to do so.

Question.... if a member knows it is illegal and can provide proof (from a state's website) to the staff here... why cant the staff remove the ad?

By leaving the ad up... would that not make fauna an accomplace (sp?) in the crime

Like I said... just asking the question. This way you dont have to know all the rules and regs... but instead you're having the laws handed to you as proof.

.......

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

But if your discussing the animal in question... what's the problem unless the seller asks the discussion to be stopped. If the seller is ok with it... it should be allowed. I don't know how many times I have been able to learn something new about a species I was interested in because of a little Q&A on that particular ad.

I actually agree with more than just this one argument, but I highlighted THIS one because this was one of the things that drew me to Fauna in the first place. Not only did I learn something about a few animals that I knew nothing/very little about, but this function, along with the BOI has kept me from having any negative transactions with bad sellers. If it's causing too much work then you gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm not making any threats to leave if changes are made, nor am I saying this to complain. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject.

Originally Posted by Matt2979

I actually agree with more than just this one argument, but I highlighted THIS one because this was one of the things that drew me to Fauna in the first place. Not only did I learn something about a few animals that I knew nothing/very little about, but this function, along with the BOI has kept me from having any negative transactions with bad sellers. If it's causing too much work then you gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm not making any threats to leave if changes are made, nor am I saying this to complain. Just thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject.

And Im sure Matt is like me. It all started because we like the animal in the photo out to the side of the ad. Otherwise we would have never of opened the ad.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

I don't know how many times I have been able to learn something new about a species I was interested in because of a little Q&A on that particular ad.

So what is the problem with taking your Q&A to a pm or email?

Originally Posted by hhmoore

What is it about posting in the classifieds that is so attractive to people? Do sellers really like doing business in public, so everybody sees the offers? Personally, I HATE people posting in my ads...I refuse to entertain offers that are submitted that way, and I don't want people cluttering my ads with questions.

I agree, which is why I usually lock my ads. Unfortunately, many of the conspiracy theorists assume those who lock their ads have something to hide. In reality, they are just tired of having their ads polluted with stupid questions or comments. I am still amazed by the number of people who ask about trades when the ad specifically states "no trades", or asks about shipping when the ad states "local pick up only". The location of the seller is listed under the user name. Why are people still asking questions like "where are you located?" and "how far are you from .....?". Personally, I don't think people realize how good of a thing this really is. Rich has actually prevented a lot of people from publicly looking stupid, but don't worry, their constitutional right to look stupid in private is still intact.

Originally Posted by bsharrah

So what is the problem with taking your Q&A to a pm or email?

I'm not the one asking the questions. I learned something from the questions others asked.

I agree, which is why I usually lock my ads. Unfortunately, many of the conspiracy theorists assume those who lock their ads have something to hide.

Alot of those that do... do have something to hide. They lock them so we cant link to their bad guy threads. They dont want to answer for what they have done in the past and could still be doing.

In reality, they are just tired of having their ads polluted with stupid questions or comments. I am still amazed by the number of people who ask about trades when the ad specifically states "no trades", or asks about shipping when the ad states "local pick up only". The location of the seller is listed under the user name. Why are people still asking questions like "where are you located?" and "how far are you from .....?". Personally, I don't think people realize how good of a thing this really is. Rich has actually prevented a lot of people from publicly looking stupid, but don't worry, their constitutional right to look stupid in private is still intact.

It's amazing the amount of folks that want the money... but don't want to deal with customer service. If I have a question.... it should be answered... that is all part of customer service. I dont know how many times I have answered somewhat stupid questions... but I answered each and every one. WHY??? Because good customer service should happen before, during, and after the sale.

As for Rich preventing us from looking stupid. I dont need Rich or the US/State Gov to protect me from myself. Besides... why would you want to keep someone from looking stupid. Chances are.... if it is a recurring theme... then maybe they are stupid, and that would be a red flag for doing business with them.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

This is only slightly different from the 'pay to play' aspect this site had in years past. Guess what... when Rich did that this place took a nose dive.

I would say it is quite a bit different. Before you couldn't post a ad without being a member. That is a lot different and this is simply a format change for the classifieds. It doesn't require anything extra for someone to do to post an ad. It is the same process and costs nothing. Many sites run different setups for classifieds that don't even have the ability to post questions on the ad itself. You can still post and ask sellers questions without being a paid member.

The good thing is Rich can always reverse the decision if it doesn't pan out for the site. It isn't a precise science, running a forum that is. Fauna has continued to grow through all the decisions. Before the change you mention about paying to use the classifieds, the site was busy but nowhere as busy as it is now. If anything it has grown substantially more than what it was before and after those changes when it was reversed.

And Im sure Matt is like me. It all started because we like the animal in the photo out to the side of the ad. Otherwise we would have never of opened the ad.

Discussions can still take place. If not by private message or email, general topics about subjects in the appropriate forum.

Question.... if a member knows it is illegal and can provide proof (from a state's website) to the staff here... why cant the staff remove the ad?

By leaving the ad up... would that not make fauna an accomplace (sp?) in the crime

I think Rich addressed this earlier. Making such a statement publicly that we would remove illegal ads would imply the ones that are left would give a false assurance that it is legal. Take out of the equation the obvious Nigerian scammers of course.

But just to throw this out there. I see often misinterpretations of the laws as well. For instance, many times I see California laws mentioned incorrectly.
Particularly about the exemptions under the propagation permit. Times that by fifty states, and that is a lot of information to verify. Strike that, forty nine because you can't have anything in Hawaii.

Nobody stated that you couldn't send a message to a moderator about a questionable ad or anything for that matter.The site just isn't going to make a statement on the fact that we are going to remove illegal ads. Do we stop at the federal and state or should we know all local laws and ordinances? It just isn't cut and dry to state that we will remove illegal ads. I think Rich would be implying to much.