Here is what has been posted on the local craiglist for weeks, cut and pasted. They do vend at The Big Horn Show, Food Festivals, The Idaho and Washington State Fairs, ect.
Firsthand I know he has owed my mother $500+ for over 2 years. 3 years ago I bought questionablke geckos from him that became problomatic that he NEVER resolved.
I do know where they live also.
"Their business card has 2 numbers one is a cell phone 208-704-1682 Tim West and the other is Mike West 208-625-0760 They are doin business under TMT Reptiles . They are illegally processing creditcards through a coin shop in post falls(comics, coins, and collectables). Lieing to people about what reptiles they are getting, and not following through with their financial promises. This goes back as far as 2002. Here are craigs lists posts just from today.
Starting before, during, and now continuing after the Big Horn Show. Mike West (son) and Tim West (father) from Idaho Their business card has 2 numbers one is a cell phone 208-704-1682 Tim West and the other is Mike West 208-625-0760 They are doin business under TMT Reptiles .
They are selling 3 bearded dragons (supposed to be 1male 2 females in a 10 gallon set up with paper towels and a clamp lamp with a 100 watt house light bulb. Told to feed mealies and crickets only. That when winter comes to put them in a shoebox in the closet and forget about them for 4 months. All for $1500-$2500. The promise is that they will buy back every baby at $35-$50 each.
I met a couple who fell for this scam. For starters they were sold 2 males and a female. Not 2 females and a male. No paperwork on bloodlines, only told they are "colored" dragons. They very will all might be related. But one of them is MUCH larger than the other 2. One they have is on it's death bed and a second is nearing critical. (The reason why this is a scam is at the end of this email below all the logged complaints against them)
I recieved more email stories after my first post on craigslist was flagged. It appears they are scamming snake buyers too. Multiple other people posted how they have also been scammed.
1. "Unfortunately your warning didnt come soon enough.....we were suckered in to breeding corn snakes and paid 1500 for 2 pairs .....after one of the males died (when we got ahold of him he said he was gonna replace the male that died) and us trying to get our money back (since Mike said if we changed our minds he would buy them back) we have yet to hear from him again after numerous calls. He also promised to buy all the snakes we produced and to provide the food for them.(which we ended up buying from petco because he gave us bad frozen mice and wouldnt provide on a continuous basis since they wont return calls) ...he did also try to get us into the bearded breeding much like you explained that they would sell 2 pairs for 2500 and buy all the babies we could produce....(fortunate for us we never were able to go thru with the bearded breeding) unfortunate for us,however, we now have 3 corn snakes that we paid well over 1500 for ..one female did lay eggs but they were all duds and we have yet to be able to get them to return calls.....anyway in our case we did end up with some wonerful snakes ( an albino burmese, 2 baby red tails, a sub adult red tail,a brazilian rainbow boa and 2 very aggressive redtails from him and of course the corn snakes) and much the same he could not provide any documentation on any of them ,the aggressive snakes he told us were salmon rtb but thru more research im finding out that they ARE NOT salmon they are just high color normals.....so all in all if there is anything we can do to help get these scammers out of taking hard earned money from good ppl (specially when money is so hard to come by these days) we would be more than happy to help....or if you find a way to get our money back from these ppl....lol yeah right huh... "
2. "Please direct email me we got dragons for these guys and have since learned many things the hard way about them, fortunetly we were able to keep our dragons healthy and provide them with things they need, but I would like to figure out how to stop mike and tim from scamming any more people
thank you for bringing this out"
3. "SLANDER: words FALSELY spoken that damage the reputation of another (put simply)
4. “There is plenty of information online about Mike West! This information dates back to 2004 (from what I could find, but most likely longer) all the way until as recently as December 2008. This isn't slander, this is reptile lovers in the Spokane cumminity that are simply warning people about you and your history as a person/business in the reptile industry. "
5. "I would not suggest working with this duo. Unless business practices have changed considerably for them. I had business dealings with them a couple of years ago in both reptiles and crickets. Unhealthy reptiles and got shorted every shipment with the crickets. They never tried to correct the issues properly, just put blame elsewhere. Oh, and the last thing I heard about these guys was they were running the business, or at least keeping the critters, illegally in a storage unit! That was then and things could have changed, BUT I highly doubt it! "
6. "Personally, i wouldn't want to do business with someone who has next to no knowledge of proper spelling. I also find it hard to believe that with the long history of claims against you, you are operating a fair and equitable business that is properly caring for your animals, much less your customers. Honestly i don't see how you have a leg to stand on, but i do see that you have no shame whatsoever. Reptiles are still animals, and deserve compassion and care, but perhaps that doesn't concern you. The problem with people like you is that you are only concerned about making money, and you've found an easy way to do so where up until now you haven't been held accountable for your actions. I'm not even involved but i personally hope that these people who have been wronged by you, somehow find a way to put you to justice so that you can stop deliberately neglecting animals and denying them proper medical attention. Selling sick reptiles for profit IS sick.”
7. “To the people complaining about it, i'm pretty sure you can a) report him to the BBB at the very least for some of this stuff, and b) report him to the ASPCA or the SPCA for at the very LEAST neglect. If you can't find the appropriate #'s i'm certain you can call the police and they will direct you to the appropriate place to lodge formal complaints and reports against these guys. If they really are running their business out of a storage shed, that alone should help you in your cause. Take it to the appropriate places and get this guy out of business. Even if everyone he contacted did read craigslist, which they don't - people like this will just find another method of exploiting animals for money. He needs to be shut down permanently. "
8. “It is very amusing how you state you have X amount of customer's but cannot seem to spell the word customer correctly. The difference between you and rest of the reptile business is the fact that your not in the profession for the love of the reptiles/ animals you are just soley in the business for the love of cash in your pocket. Come on now if you have this many indiviuals who have had a bad experience with you and believe you are a scammer its got to show for something. You obviously have left a bad taste in many peoples mouth for your name to get thrown out here like it has. If you had any sort of Customer Service Skills you would care if you even had 1 bad reply from a customer not shrug your shoulders like oh well I have 100's of customers and what does one matter. Dont you know the biggest thing for business is WORD OF MOUTH !!! . Your target is these people that are barely trying to get into reptiles you upsell and take advantage of them being they are nieve to how much stuff really should cost ( fairly ) and you sell them things obviously by previous post that aren't healthy or kept in a very safe environment. You not only ruin it for the actual good reptile businesses/ people but you also detour these indivuals from actually looking to probably get other reptiles due to the one experience they had with you ! .
Come on now you are just as bad as a car salesman. When I had first met you I saw B.S. written all over your face . Hey people let me ask you a question, what reptile owner/ business try's to sell you a reptile ( highly over priced by the way) and also brings a box of jewelery stones along to sale to you? . I would recommend for any people who are looking to purchase a reptile / 1st time owner or not to continue giving business to the in home reptile business owners or stores who actually take the time to care for each of their reptiles indivually. Someone who actually has knowledge and can educate you and whose ultimate heart is in that for the care of the reptile not just for the almight dollar......”
9. “Oh and news flash Mike its not just 1 person but several.. get a clue!!!!!!CLUELESS MIKE.. “
10. “Here is what I suggest that everyone who has been scammed by Tim and Mike West do:
Email the below people your complaints............
Big Horn Outdoor Show
BigHornShow@wildlifecouncil.org
Consumer complaint form
http://www2.state.id.us/ag/consumer/...orm_Online.pdf
Office of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division
954 W. Jefferson, 2nd Floor
P.O. Box 83720
Boise, ID 83720-0010
Kootenai County Business
Mailing Address:
PO Box 9000
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83816-9000
Kootenai County Sheriffs
5500 N. Government Way
Coeur d'Alene, ID
(208) 446-1300
kcsd@kcgov.us
Idaho Fair
ginny@northidahofair.com
Spokane County Fair
• FAX - (509) 477-8926
• E-MAIL -
JMcLaughlin@spokanecounty.org
• MAIL - Spokane County Interstate Fair
404 N Havana St Ste 1
Spokane Valley WA 99202-4663“
10. “We read the add that they had and went to see what the deal was. When we asked if they would sign a contract to buy the baby beared dragons, the subject was changed. Also there was the metion of breeding boston terriers and french bulldogs. If the dreagons are in a storage shed the dogs are also because we were told that they were all in a separte location. I wasn't scammed so all I can do is tell everyone I know to watch out for them but if they are keeping the dogs is a storage unit the ASPCA might be really interested.
Its a same that with things the way they are with the economy that these jerks are taking what little money some people have and getting rich.”
11. “If you got a reptile at the Big Horn Show YOU GOT RIPPED OFF. If it's healthy I bet you still paid way higher than market price. These two individuals from N.Idaho have been known scammers for years. If you don't believe me look here,
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=73724,
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=115833,
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=73724 “
12. “Golden Gate Geckos Inquiry - Mike West, crickets for geckos? I received a phone call 6-8 weeks ago from Mike West at a cricket farm in Idaho who made a proposition to trade feeders for geckos. He seems like a 'straight up' guy, and I have ordered feeders from him to check them out. Has anyone else done business with him? Is he keeping his end of the deal after the trade(s)? “
13. “BKDragons Marcia, I would stay as far away from this guy as you can.I sent him about 15 bearded dragons and he totally screwed me.I had to call the police dpt out there and get them involved.He is a young kid and he sounds very trustworthy on the phone, but that's were it ends.His father called me and sounded very upset that his son was getting involved with people on the internet.He told me that his son had no money and that he couldn't possibly come up with the money needed for shipping.I paid for the first shipment,but everything arrived dead and smelly.The count was also very,very poor.Please don't make the same mistake I did.
Brian [BK Dragons] “
14. “Golden Gate Geckos Hmmmm... do you have contact information for Mike's father? “
15. “BKDragons I have a phone number and you can email me
bkastner@comcast.net.I'm a little suprised that your even still thinking about doing business with him.
Brian [BK Dragons] “
16. “Golden Gate Geckos Thanks for the info, Brian. Fortunately, I have not sent him any geckos. He has been very good about calling every week for an order, and has always returned my calls... but there was just something nagging me inside to check him out. I have not been real thrilled with the feeders he has sent so far, so I guess the moral of the story is to trust your gut instinct.
Thanks for the BOI, Rich! “
17. “anowen25 mike west, do not trust this guy let me tell you about this guy, and btw i should have done this a long time ago.
I have my website and contact info on kingsnake.com. This is how mike gets customers, he went to my site, and then called me.
He tried to sell me some crickets, we bargained for a bit and finally came down to 13 shipped a thousand based on a standing weekly order.
I kept on receiving orders that looked as though they were in the box for a while. I was also having them shipped to my partners facility in Tacoma, WA. He was having similar troubles with the crickets. I mean the crickets died within 4 days. Mike was pretty good about replacing them, but I couldn't help but wonder.
I inquired and he said that he bred them at his place and he had no idea why they were dying.
One of the weeks I received a whole dead shipment from him I made the 1 and a half hour round trip drive to Sunshine Mealworms (great people by the way). I spoke with Nicole the co-owner about this. She asked if this Mike guy was from Idaho. I said yes, she asked if his last name was West, I said yes. She said that he buys thousands of crickets a week from them and was very delinquent on his payments. We concluded that based on everything, he was lying to them (they had a no drop shipment agreement btw) he was drop shipping his crickets to all of his customers.
Sunshine then, based on this dropped his orders and we subsequently dropped our business with Mr. West.
So Mike West has lied to everyone in the past and is a known drop shipper. I wouldn't touch Mike's business with a hundred foot pole.
Thanks for reading and hope this helps.
Andrew Owen “
18. “Simply Scales Any info on Mike West??? please advise! Hello,
I have recently met Mike West and am considering doing a large level of business with him, but have not been able to find any credible references. Any advice?
I think his current business is called TMT Reptiles.
Thanks for taking the time to help.
Kathy “
19. “houdini1 Hi, Was going to do a deal with him on cages. I decided against it after talking with several others in the area.
I was supposed to trade off some geckos for cages, but the numbers didn't add up and I got a really bad gut feeling. He kept calling and calling, and told me he had a buyer for the geckos and wanted them immediately.
I did run into his Father Tim West at the Kootenai Fair. He was selling some reptiles there, and most of them weren't the greatest looking, and his prices were extremely high considering that. I realized after I got home that I should have taken pics, but didn't think about it.
Just my personal opinion, they sound great over the phone and talk a great deal. However things started to come out after talking to several others and reading about them here.
He also lives in Hayden, however all their contact info is out of WA.
Kristina Rogers “
20. “connie HI, Just wanted to let everyone know, we had an experience with mike & tim west. Met them at the fair, then called them to set up an appt to meet, we ended up with some dragons, one died and we have another one that seems to be in bad shape, called mike said his dad was out of town on some personal business would contact us by tonight and when we tried to call them, both their spokane #'s have been disconnected. We were lucky we canceled our checks as we also had a bad gut feeling when they would not return our calls. hope this helps you out my opinion is to stay away from these two, not to impressed, im not to sure about where they live we got different stories, hayden, spokane, & chatteroy. So word to the wise people beware!!! If anyone has a better # or knows where they are please let us know thanks
connie “
21. “houdini1 Hi Connie, Sorry to hear about your dragons. The ones I saw them with at the fair were bad, one of them appeared to either be severely impacted, or a broken back. It wasn't using its back legs.
I do have one number for them, from the business care Tim gave me.
I also found out that they were also at a food festival here in post falls, selling reptiles.
If you check the nickelsworth, and the exchange. Sometimes they have ads in those too with phone numbers.
Kristina Rogers “
22. “houdini1 On another note. He may very well be at the Spokane County fair if its still going on. You could always pay him a visit and talk to him there.”
THE RESON WHY THE BEARDIES ARE A SCAM:
Beardies CAN sell for 100's of dollars. But they are from reputable breeders with extensive paperwork on proven bloodlines. No run of the mill "colored" dragon is worth 100's in breeding. The only way to turn a large profit is to have the genetics fully documented.
CARE- is where they are really setting these folks up for failure.
Male dragons MUST be housed alone. SOMETIMES two female dragons can be housed together if they are the same size. Young Beardies fewer than 10 inches in length can be housed in a 20 gal. long aquarium. This will last them only a few months as they grow quickly. Adult Dragons should be housed in nothing smaller than a 40 gal. Breeder tank.
Feeding-Crickets, roaches, and greens are given daily dusted with Calcium with D3.
Juveniles get insects 2X a day. Crickets/Roaches provide the necessary protein they need. Silk worms are a feeder but are costly. Supplement greens with vitamin/mineral spray .DO NOT use iceberg lettuce or any cabbage base greens such as cabbage, broccoli, ect. Ready bagged "Spring Mix" is available in your grocery salad section. Or use green leaf, red leaf, arugela, romaine lettuce, collard greens, mustard greens, ect. Mealie worms should NEVER be feed.. WATERBOWLS NEED TO BE PROVIDED!
Bearded Dragons require full spectrum lighting UVB for 12 hours a day. These bulbs should stretch the length of your Beardies enclosure and your dragon should be able to come within 6-8 inches of the light. The UV light should be placed over the cage and not directed through the glass,(use screen tops from proper airflow) glass will deflect the UV rays. Bulbs need to be replaced at least every 6 months.
To produce heat and a basking spot in your enclosure for 12 hours a day, you can use either a ceramic heat emitter, or a basking light bulb. The best fixture for any of these choices is a porcelain dome light fixture. This type of fixture is a must with a ceramic heat emitter due to the amount of heat they produce. The temperature for this basking spot you created should be around 110f for juveniles and can be around 95f for adults. The cool side of the enclosure should be around 85f during the day. Nighttime temperatures can fall as low as 65f. It is fairly easy to keep your night temps above this even in the winter. If you can't keep your temps above this you may want to consider buying an under tank heater (UTH) for nighttime use. Using this just during the evening hours will help create a warm spot for your Dragon to sleep. DO NOT use heat rocks as these can cause serious burns on your animal’s underside.
You need to provide your beardie with a driftwood stick or store bought stick to reach the highest bask spot. DO NOT use a outside limb from your yard with bark on it.
Hydration-It is recommended to provide a bath/soak once per week. I bathe in the bathtub in the winter and a kiddy pool in the summer. Don't fill the water level too high. Particularly for babies, as some beardies will fall asleep and possibly drown in the tub. They tend to sleep almost immediately at lights out, and are heavy sleepers. When bathing, the water level should be shallow to allow the dragon to stand up out of the water, and should feel of neutral temperature to you, if it feels hot to your hand, it is too hot for your dragon.
Brumation/Hybernation- Many BDs over 2 years of age (in some cases, even younger) will brumate, or hibernate, during the winter months, anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, especially males. Some will sleep on and off getting up to eat or bask occasionally, and others go down hard, not waking for several (2) months .If your dragon seems ready to brumate in the winter it will start to retreat to its hide cave and sleep all day, it is a good idea to make a vet visit for a fecal check, especially if you're not accustomed to this behavior, or are unsure of your dragons' health. Stop feeding for several days and give the dragon a bath to make sure he poops before you put it down to sleep so food isn't sitting in his belly during brumation. At this time, the lights can be turned to a shorter cycle (to match the outdoor lighting cycle) and ambient heat reduced slightly. I recommend leaving the UV light on and the basking light off in case they do decide to go warm up, or eat and need to digest the food. Unless your dragon is truly down for the count, it is a good idea to continue offering salads daily. Once the dragon is ready to wake it will come out and wait in the basking area for the "sun to rise". Turn on the basking bulb and begin to feed again.
Reproduction. Dragons reach sexual maturity at 1 to 2 years of age. Females retain sperm for usually an entire season from one mating. Put them together ONE time- It all lasts about 10 seconds. Females normally lay clutches of 15-25 eggs in a lay box within 3-5 weeks, and then every 3-5 weeks there after. Hatchlings arrive within 3 months in an incubator. They weigh about .07 ounces (2 gr) at birth and average 4 inches (10 cm) in length. Young usually eat you out of house and home (24 crickets a day each) and grow rapidly and gain adult size within a year. clutch mates can be housed together for short term, but any getting bigger or staying smaller must be separated out. Babies need the same care as the adults. UVB, and basking lights. I DO NOT recommend you breed your dragons without doing extensive research first.
Incubation- An incubator is a large expense. Havobator chicken egg incubators can only hold maybe 2 clutches. They are $60. You will need lots of them, or a large incubator that will range from $1500-$4500.
There are outlets to wholesale large lots of babies at roughly 2 months. The standard is no tail or toe nips. Hard to get if you feed crickets. The going wholesale rate is $8-$18. High end colors must have genetic documentation to get the high end price. You can sell them individually and ask for more $, again without paperwork that may be hard. It will take a lot more time, and feeding. Babies gain color as they grow. Few show any color as hatchlings.
If you know anyone who fell for this scam, or might, please warn them. I will gladly give info for at least a half dozen reputable breeders to buy from at a lower cost for a better dragon. I will also gladly give you wholesalers info to sell to.
Mike and Tim are criminals in my eyes!
MIKE WEST (BAD GUY), COEUR D ALENE, IDAHO
MIKE WEST (BAD GUY), COEUR D ALENE, IDAHO
Linear Mode
