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Old 01-21-2013, 04:42 PM   #1
mikepanzarella
My dealing with Cobain1309 (Chris Grisham)

Im posting this as an info thread because honestly I dont know what to think at this point but things just are not adding up.
Im very much hoping this will clear something up on both sides and thank you guys in advance.

Heres things as I see it
On dec 2nd 2012 I messaged Chris on fauna about his phoenix worm ad asked a few questions and for a shipping quote
we exchanged a few messages then chris had a computer problem and was able to contact me till dec 22nd we then switched contact over to email
I purchased 1 pound (3600) phoenix worms for $60 shipping was $10 for a total of $70

the 1st shipment came in with a total weight of .476 pounds thats with the rolled oats (mushy stuff in the email) and the plastic containers (to containers)
the 1st and 2nd pic are of the 1st shipment

I emailed chris and told him what had happened and that I wanted a refund
he responded with he didnt pack the order himself .he offered to ship me another one pound ,and then another one pound next month this was more then a generous offer so I accepted on the 15th he shipped out the new package
jan 17th I got the package in the mail I weighed the total of the worms,cups,and sawdust to be 16.15 ounces (shown in pictures)
chris had told me he would be a little short this month so I email mailed him and said looks good then asked him if 17 ounces (rounded up) sounded correct
the next day I figured out how to sort the worms from the saw dust and weighed them to just over 4 ounces (this was 4 of the 5 cups sent) I had given one cup to my friend (yes I know stupid but chris knew I was splitting up the order and told him I was giving some to a friend)
I then emailed mailed him and told him about what had happened and asked for a refund (I know im responsible for the cup given away)
we were not able to come to an agreement so I opened a paypal dispute

here are all the emails copied from yahoo to word pad then copied and pasted onto here (I will gladly screen shot any emails if needed)
the photos are mostly taken from the videos I made wile unboxing the packages dont know how to upload videos but I will gladly send them to anyone who questions the pictures or the videos

PART ONE EMAILS:
Kool, They look like aliens or very prehistoric. I am going to read up on them and learn a little.
Thanks
Chris

--- On Thu, 1/10/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 12:45 AM

We have idolomantis diabolica right now there going to be too big for the boxer mantis in march /April were getting 5-7 other species of mantis they all need flying good

We also breed bearded dragons we like to give them and the babies a nice wide variety
image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

Mike Panzarella

On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:38 PM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:

> I usualy ship with rolled oatmeal. If you want to feed them table scraps are fine if you have a tomato a couple slices they love, Also on the table scraps you dont want to give more that 5% meat. The heat you have is ideal for them.
> Thanks Chris
> P.S. I never got a response about what you feeding them to. I am curious. I thought the mantis if so please send pic I am interested.
>
> --- On Wed, 1/9/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
> Date: Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 5:41 PM
>
> I didn't see anything wrong with the address
> 390 ocean ave
> East rockaway ny 11518
> I have them in that plastic tote with a lid (1/2 screen) its on my roach rack stays around 85-90
> Also what is the food you use that seems much cleaner then regular compost the videos recommend
>
> Mike Panzarella
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 12:37 PM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Mike Thank You for excepting the offer I would rather have a happy customer. I will personally harvest you re order on Monday and send a new tracking number. Also do you see any problems with the address I sent it to the way it was filled out. If so let me know. Also in the mean time if you have a heat light that will crank them up and let you know what is alive.You will be surprised. When you come across a worm that is brown usually his shell is hard that is a larvae going into the next stage they are still good and crunchy. And safe to use
>> I am sorry to hear about all the hassles and the Dubai roaches(maybe they froze) I cant say.And yeah the easy way is to just push refund , But then you have a unsatisfied costumer. I choose the second.
>> Again Thank You
>> Chris Grisham
>> --- On Wed, 1/9/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 5:14 PM
>>
>> what would of made me happy is the order coming in good but things dont always go right and I understand the shipping wasnt your fault
>> your offer is more then reasonable and I will happily accept it
>> wait till monday to ship the one pound no need to rush this late on a wednesday
>> as for the other one pound next month around monday the 11th would be great Ill see my friends that week end and can split them up then
>> thank you for your more then generous offer
>> mike
>> just got the other email I figured it was food but it was still mush and wasnt sifting to try and find dead worms
>> please understand im not mad things dont always go right and I totally understand that but a few things went wrong this order but you more then offered to make things right
>> it seems the new year so far is not very good to me with ordering bugs 75% of my adult dubia order came in DOA (seller took care of it)
>> hopefully everything goes smoothly from here on out
>> thanks again mike
>>
>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>> To: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>
>> Mike, I did not pack that order.you are definitely right. If you are interested I will ship you a pound plus asap and for you re inconvenience I will ship another pound the following month free no cost to you. What you got today is not the norm for us even though it was short the quality is much better. The seven day's it took for shipping was ridiculous and had a impact on them.
>> I am more interested in a happy customer, so let me know if you still want a refund I have no problem with that.
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/9/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 4:12 PM
>>
>> few problems not all were dead cant really tell how many were dead the stuff they were sent in is all mush
>> but this wasnt even close to 1 pound (3600) worms with the containers it was .47 lbs did you by chance send me the wrong order
>> im attaching the 2 pics I couldnt get the video to load on the email
>> is there some place else I can send it?
>> honestly at this point I just want a refund if you would like me to send whats left back to you just pay for the shipping
>> thanks mike
>>
>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>> To: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>
>> I have no Ideal, I went on the web and see that(mabey wrong post office). today it say's it is being delivered. Let me know what show's up if you have any problems I will reship you more.
>> Sorry for the inconvenience
>> Chris Grisham
>> 772-626-4369
>>
>> --- On Mon, 1/7/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 10:29 PM
>>
>> it says mis-shipped no idea what that means
>> I was still hoping they would get here today but no luck
>> how well do these guys do in shipping as im sure the heat pack (if one was needed is done)
>>
>>
>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>> To: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>
>> did go to the tracking # and see were they are at. You should of gotten them today by the latest I will find out and get back with you. I send them priority 2 to 3 day's delivvert time. And yeh I agree that sucks.
>> When I get home I will look them up and find out what's happening and let you know.
>> Thanks
>> Chris Grisham
>> 772-626-4369
>>
>> P.S. Is this they order for the mantis to eat.
>>
>> --- On Sat, 1/5/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 8:17 PM
>>
>> well it seems they are not coming today that really sucks
>> ill have to figure something out to get them split up
>> ill let you know when they finally arrive
>> mike
>>
>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>> To: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 6:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>
>> Sorry for delaid reply, You can keep them in any tuppaware. I ship them in rolled oatmeal which keeps them dry(so they cant climb) and a food source.With what I sent you you can start youre own colony. Go to youtube and do a search on Black Soldier Fly.
>> Thanks chris
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 11:56 PM
>>
>> what do the worms eat and do the solider flies eat the same stuff
>> whats the best way to house them dont know if they can climb
>> im pretty sure the flies well can fly lol
>> thanks again mike
>>
>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>> To: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>
>> Yeah I agree, Specially if you are in N.Y. Maybe next year.I split you re package up into two containers instead of four when you open the containers their will be a little debris on top(leaves,dirt) Just pinch that off and disregard. the phoenix worms go to the bottom.
>> Tracking # 9405 5096 9993 9425 3823 57 U.S.P.S.
>> If You have any questions please feel free to contact me.
>> Thank You
>> Chris
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/2/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 2, 2013, 5:23 PM
>>
>> That sounds great thanks and New Years is aways fun lol
>>
>>
>> Mike Panzarella
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 10:59 AM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Mike, Had A quiet holiday. Youre order is going out today Priority mail. I am splitting up the pound into 4 containers so it will be easier for you to split them up. I will send you a tracking # this afternoon.
>>> Thanks Chris
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 1/1/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Phoenix worms
>>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2013, 8:50 PM
>>>
>>> hey man hope you had a good holiday and happy new years
>>> im just checking in making sure the order is able to go out tomorrow
>>> thanks again mike
>>>
>>>
>>> From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
>>> To: chevycamaro13@yahoo.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:51 AM
>>> Subject: Phoenix worms
>>>
>>> Helo, I was looking at the calander and the post office. They are having some delays due to weather and flights cancelled. The safest day to ship would be wenesday the second. I want to make sure that is ok with you. If I tried to ship today or tomarrow I would be concerned with them sitting in a wharehouse, Also for the delay I will give you extra worms for youre trouble.
>>> Thank You
>>> Evergreen Exotics
>>> Chris (772) 626-4369
>>> P.S. any ? or concerns please dont hesitate to call me.
>>>
PART TWO EMAILS:
Mike When you emailed me about 17 oz I checked my records and I had 1.7 figured you made a mistake. now I checked the postal weight same thing.your first order I think you got a half a pound plus the post office screwed up.this replacement order I packed my self .
I also sent out two other orders that day, I checked with them they are fine checked my scale that is good.
The 4 Oz's is crazy that would only be 800 worms that will fit in one of the small container's try checking your scale. plus I weigh the worms before I ad any median to them and the container does not get weighed.
Next month I will send photos of the worms being packed and on the scale. Also I use a $150.00 postal scale.I have had less expensive scales when the batteries get low they will give off readings.
respectfully yours
Chris
--- On Fri, 1/18/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: phoenix worms
To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
Date: Friday, January 18, 2013, 11:50 PM

I just sorted them out of the saw dust and I came up with 4.15 ounces of worms I gave my friend one of the small clear plastic containers out of the 5 total containers
even if these guys were hydrated I cant see them weighing the 15.6 ounces (now reading back) you said they were before packing material
when the total with the plastic cups and everything was 17 ounces
so if assume each container had 1 ounce in them got 5 containers gave one away left with 4 ounces from 4 containers thats still only 1/3 of the amount you said was in them I dont think they lost 2/3 there weight in a few days
whats going on here? if your short and cant fill the order I dont mind giving you more time to fill it properly but I dont want to trust that everything theres then figure out a way to sort them only to find im 2/3s short of what was said to be in there
I really dont know what to think at this point but I didnt think there was 3600 to start with and I guess thats my fault for not figuring out a way to properly weigh out the worms and taken your word for it
please get back to me asap
thanks mike

From: c grisham <cobain1309@att.net>
To: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: phoenix worms

The brown ones that have a hard shell are the ones you want for flies depending on what stage they are in it can take up to three weeks

--- On Thu, 1/17/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: phoenix worms
To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
Date: Thursday, January 17, 2013, 6:02 PM

Was going to be two people but I won't see them till feb 24th so I figured I would just split up the 2nd shipment with them
This time around my friend Chris that lives near me is going to feed off some to his geckos and I'm going to feed them to my dragons and try and get a bunch to turn to flies for the mantis
I'm guessing by that time these ones will all turn to flies so can't really save them

Mike Panzarella

On Jan 17, 2013, at 12:58 PM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:

> I am glad you got youre worms, And 17oz is about right they dry out during shipping. how many people are you splitting them with.Also I sent them in saw dust they can stay in that at least two weeks with no food.
>
> --- On Thu, 1/17/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: phoenix worms
> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
> Date: Thursday, January 17, 2013, 4:41 PM
>
> Got the worms today
> Everything looks good but I don't know how to weigh them out or seperate them from the sawdust
> With the packages it weighed about 17ounces does that sound right
> Thanks
>
> Mike Panzarella
>
> On Jan 15, 2013, at 5:29 PM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:
>
>> tracking # 9405503699300258090054 U.S.P.S.
>> I wheighed them dry without packing material 15.6 oz just shy of a pound. I will make up for it next month.
>> Thanks Chris
>>
>> --- On Tue, 1/15/13, Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mike Panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: phoenix worms
>> To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2013, 8:42 PM
>>
>> Ok sounds good
>>
>> Mike Panzarella
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 3:31 PM, c grisham <cobain1309@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike I am heading to the post office now. I like to wait till the end of day, less time in container's. I will send tracking # this evevning.
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 1/15/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: phoenix worms
>>> To: cobain1309@att.net
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2013, 6:44 PM
>>>
>>> hey I havnt received a tracking number or a conformation email that they were sent out yesterday
>>> thanks mike
PART THREE EMAILS:
I shipped three orders the same day I shipped your first order. None of my other customers had a problem with their deliveries. I replace your order with no additional shipping fees to you. If you were unsatisfied with your first order when you received it you should have returned it immediately. If you were unsatisfied with your replacement order when you received it you should have returned it immediately. If you would like to return both orders I will issue a refund for the full amount minus shipping on the second order.

I have an email from you on January 15, 2013 saying every thing looked good. I would expect since you sell worms and roaches on face book and at shows you would know how to weight them. At this time I have no idea how long they were dehydrated or if any were separated from the order.

Respectfully yours

Chris
--- On Sun, 1/20/13, mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: mike panzarella <chevycamaro13@yahoo.com>
Subject: phoenix worms
To: "c grisham" <cobain1309@att.net>
Date: Sunday, January 20, 2013, 12:50 PM

didnt get a response after the 9am email just wanted to make sure one of your emails didnt go to my spam folder
I would like to get this issue solved so if you could get back to me
thanks mike
If you were unsatisfied with your order when you received it you should have returned it immediately for a full refund. I clearly state I don't pay for return shipping. If you would like to return both orders I will issue a refund for the full amount minus shipping on the second order. I did not make a mistake. I can not help for delivery delays. I replaced the order once because of delivery delays. I have followed paypals guidelines.

Respectfully yours
Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2621.jpg (166.9 KB, 941 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2624.jpg (222.5 KB, 946 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2613.jpg (145.5 KB, 944 views)
File Type: jpg phoenix fly ad.jpg (152.4 KB, 949 views)
 
Old 01-21-2013, 04:43 PM   #2
mikepanzarella
other pictures

here are some more pictures taken from the videos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2619.jpg (106.5 KB, 947 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2625.jpg (130.7 KB, 949 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2622.jpg (178.0 KB, 950 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2578.jpg (189.1 KB, 958 views)
 
Old 01-21-2013, 04:45 PM   #3
mikepanzarella
from what ive been able to get from the weighs between both packages its only been about 7-8 ounces of worms about 1/2 the order
 
Old 01-21-2013, 04:49 PM   #4
mikepanzarella
I just sent chris a message letting him know about this thread
 
Old 01-23-2013, 01:29 PM   #5
mikepanzarella
the seller has escalated it to a claim on paypal, waiting for them to ask me to respond.
I also opened a claim with my bank.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 04:36 PM   #6
NIGRO51
I wonder why he hasn't chimed in on here yet.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:25 PM   #7
mikepanzarella
I cant answer why he hasnt commented on this thread.
but I do get a sense of stalling
dispute was open with paypal on monday,on wednesday he escalated it to a claim.
its now thursday and paypal is still waiting for him to upload evidence before we will be asked to upload anything we have.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 08:48 AM   #8
mikepanzarella
here is the message I sent to him on the 21st informing him of this thread,
both messages to dispute the paypal charge the 2nd is his reply (would of posted sooner but just saw it myself)

I have not cut off communication,only asked it be done here on this thread or in the paypal dispute
as for being unreasonable hes had a 2nd chance to make it right and by my calculations failed too
Attached Images
File Type: jpg paypal chris.jpg (143.9 KB, 796 views)
File Type: jpg fauna message.jpg (110.7 KB, 791 views)
 
Old 01-27-2013, 02:04 PM   #9
mikepanzarella
paypal is reviewing the case and will make a final decision
they recommended sending the worms back and emailing them the tracking number on my bank dispute
so monday ill be shipping them back to the address I have on the paypal invoice for chris
 
Old 01-28-2013, 02:04 AM   #10
mikepanzarella
tracking number #9405503699300298160669
im shipping the worms back to chris tomorrow per the advice of paypal
the package weight is 2.2 pounds they are packed with wet rolled oats (there food)
 

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