Mark Miller of Loco-Lizards Liar and a Thief

Originally Posted by KingPin

This is a link to the page on my site containing the TOS.
http://locolizards.com/contact.htm

and this is what they state


Mark Miller

John,

If thats the TOS that you purchased the snake under, then anything above and beyond that, that isn't in writing is going to end up as one's word versus another. Doesn't sound good but it is what it boils down to.

Do to the nature of the participants (well known breeder and well known breeder) I can forsee where there feels like there should be better resolve or willign to compromise but it looks to be boiling down to seller vs. buyer.

Originally Posted by johnmartino

After 2 ½ months he still hadn’t fed. At this point mark called me for the DOB of the 06’ sunglow. I proceeded to tell him about the Blood male not feeding and starting to look worse.

John, is this statement accurate? Did you have the animal in your possession for 2 1/2 months without it feeding before Mark became aware that there was a problem?

And during that time you did not have it examined by a vet, correct?

My brother and I have made numerous purchases and trades with Mark and never had any problems. I have never known Mark to not stick to what he said he would do. Mark has always treated us fairly. I do think there are two sides to every story though, and we are only getting half.

Mark, You continue with the lies. But I expected that, yet am willing to eat them so no one else gets screwed like me. We spoke of a trade for the Bloody Salmon female. You valued her in the $16,000-$17,000 range. You were giving me a $6500 credit and I was making up the difference with animals in my Lipstick line Sunglow litter. What about the other animals promised?

Alan: I understand what you are saying but to me the TOS kind of goes out the window when someone promises compensation and takes the snake back.

Erin: You continue to ask the same questions that are already posted and get the same answers. Why doesnt Mark post the pictures of the Blood male breeding that were in his ad when he was posting him for sale? That was the entire reason for me purchasing him. And we all know that breeding males do not eat. So I didnt think he was ill just refusing food due to breeding for Mark. as for everything else, Mark knew all about it yet took the snake back. And again HE TOOK THE SNAKE BACK with the promise of compensation.

Ray: I am glad everything worked out for you with Mark. Believe it or not Mark and I have actually done business before. Things went well that time. Thats why I was so suprised with this trandsaction. But I guess its easy to be a good guy when things are good. Its how you react when things are not so good that shows your true character.

Am I the only one that sees this...

A newly acquired boa regurgitates it's second meal, and instead of keeping it in quarantine, it gets introduced to an established collection?

Was this animal ever even in quarantine?

As i said in my original post. It regurged it FIRST meal and KEPT DOWN the SECOND meal. Please read MY POST CAREFULLY. It was purchased as a breeder from someone i trusted and had done business before. Whether i quarantined or not, or colored the animal purple, Mark knew IN FULL THE DEAL with this animal. AND HE TOOK IT BACK!!!!!!

There is a point there. When you accepted the snake back, Mark, from your side what were the conditions?

Originally Posted by johnmartino

Erin: You continue to ask the same questions that are already posted and get the same answers.

Ok, let me try a different question then: If Mark hadn't happened to call after 2 1/2 months, at what point were you going to contact him, if at all, to tell him there was a problem with the animal?

this is just my .02 after hearing both sides of the story. i alloways like to listen to both people then find that middle ground.

first off people invest big money in snakes every day and the sad fact is these are living animals and $#^* happens. it is a risk we all take when investing in animals.

second if there is a tos and you did not fallow the outline then the loss of the animal is on you the buyer. ( we all agree that it is way to bad that you dont have any proof of your conversations you had)

third i do find it verry hard to believe that someone would pay shipping of an animal back to someone with out a promis of a refund or something.

to john if you are telling the 100% truth i relly feal for you and this whole thing sux big time. and you learned a 6500 lesson. that is to get everything in writing.

to mark if you are being attacked here and are telling the 100% truth then i guess this is one of those times that being a nice guy and trying to help someones sick animal did not pay off.

any whoo if we cant see the e-mails these two exchanged then we as the public will never fully know the 100% truth. and that relly sux as someones rep is being called out here.

Erin, that is too much of a hypothetical question for me to answer. I obviously had enough concern that when Mark called me I felt the need to tell him the problem. You seem to be missing the point on a few levels. One, he was sold to me as a breeding male. Breeding males do not eat during the breeding season. So i had reason to believe he was in that mode and that was why he was not feeding. Not so cut an dry as a 14 day TOS. Second Mark was fully aware of how long i had it when he agreed to take him back. Whether it was 2 1/2 months or 2 1/2 years he agreed to take him back and compensate me. So to me you are asking irrelevat questionas as Mark knew all the time frames you seem to keep asking and still took him back under the guise of compensation.

Also, i have almost 20 years keeping reptiles with almost 17 in breeding. i do not need Mark to take an animal back and get it healthy for me. Not only do i have confidence in myself, but i have plenty of other knowledgable breeders, many which are bigger than myself, locally and others which i can reach out to when needed.

Look at it this way. If i go to a store and purchase a product which has a 30 day return policy and bring it back after 90 days i am outside of their policy. However if i bring it back after 90 days and they accept my return i would expect just compensation. Would anyone disagree with that? Same premise here. Was it after 14 days, yes. Never claimed any different. Does Mark admit to accepting the animal back after 14 days, yes he does. So yes, i expect just compensation.

Matt, i agree with you 100%. Live animals die. I would just like for my animals to die in my possesion. If i send them back and they are accepted back, with the promise of compensation i dont feel they are mine anymore. Yes, I understand i was outside the TOS which would fall on the buyer, however, again, i feel he extended the TOS when he agreed to take the animal back. Yes, who in their right mind would pay to send back a $6500 animal if the werent told they were getting a refund or other compensation was coming, in this case compensation. And lastly i am telling the 100% truth and Mark knows it. So yes, big lesson learned. EVERYHTING must be in writing from now on.