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Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Snake Discussion Forums > Venomous Snakes Discussion Forum


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Old 01-01-2005, 11:04 AM   #31
Originally Posted by Lonermon
i didnt post the picture to encourage others to freehandle snakes, but rather to give peope a chance to see a variety of snake they otherwise migh not get to...

And you know what, I appreciate that. Just like with Steve Irwin's show, I appreciate that I have been able to see and learn about so many different types of animals across the world. However, he catches a lot flack too because of his methods. (and you are catching it too cause of the methods you used to take your picture) I personally think Iriwn pesters the animals too much. But he does often say to us viewers that if we should come across a snake to leave it alone. So basically he is saying "do as I say not as I do...I've been doing this a long time, I know what I am doing, and I am willing to put myself in a dangerous situation so you can get a good look at these animals and learn about them." And yes I know there's more to it than just that (I'm sure they are also interested in the ratings, the money, etc...)

But if Steve Irwin gets bit and dies from it, I seriously doubt it will have any affect on the regular person's ability to keep venomous animals. It's when it happens to the average joe that it gets in the local papers and on the news...and then that person's neighbors all of a sudden know that these "dangerous" animals had been living right next door to them. That's when people can get together and push for a ban on "exotic" animals.

I have seen other pictures posted on other sites receive the same reaction as yours did. I think venomous keepers are in constant worry that they will lose their freedom to keep such animals. I even worry about it happening where I live, even though most of my collection consists of corn snakes. A snake is a snake to a lot of people...whether it's a corn snake, a burmese python, or a rattlesnake. I recently saw some pictures on another site showing huge burmese pythons who have free roam of the house, and the owner more than once posted comments bragging about his "security system". I find that totally irresponsible and another example of a serious incident waiting to happen. One that could very well have a negative effect on other people's ability to keep large pythons like that.

I agree with a previous post that your reason for free-handling was not a good one. I don't think picture taking could ever possibly be a valid reason for free-handling a hot snake. However, I think it'd be great if you could set up some lighting so you can take pictures of him/her in it's enclosure. I'm sure everyone would appreciate seeing pictures of your pretty snake taken that way.

Happy New Year, and Peace!

Old 01-01-2005, 11:44 AM   #32
Gregg M
Good point Seamus..... That in its self shows the level at which this person operates.... LOL
Old 01-01-2005, 11:46 AM   #33
Gregg M
Oh and Traci, for someone that does not keep hots, you have a great outlook on the situation..... I appluad you and your comments.....
Old 01-01-2005, 12:14 PM   #34
Originally Posted by Gregg M
Oh and Traci, for someone that does not keep hots, you have a great outlook on the situation..... I appluad you and your comments.....
Thank you Gregg, that was nice to say. I must admit I have a little bit of a yearning to keep a hot snake (NEVER thought I'd say that)...but I know I am not ready. Maybe I never will be. That is a HUGE responsibility, just HUGE. They are so beautiful and fascinating. Luckily the show closest to me (Hamburg, PA) allows hots. My favorites to look at are albino monacled cobras, eyelash vipers, albino rattlesnakes, and gaboon vipers. But if I were to ever keep one I'd most likely start with a copperhead. But I don't know if that day will ever come. I do have some not so trustworthy, not so calm corn snakes that I unintentionally 'practice' with. I don't handle them in the same way I handle the others, I handle them so I don't get bit!! It hurts!!

Thanks again
Old 01-01-2005, 12:29 PM   #35
lonerman, im not trying to argue here, but a 189 iq puts you near einsteins intellegence. (200 something) now looking at the misspelling errors and other errors, it would make me think otherwise about your true iq level. scince you just called yourself a genius......

now i USED to keep cottonmouths a long time ago (when i was 14-16). HECK i even free handled them, BUT looking back at what i was doing i realized how stupid i was for it. now im just a man of average intellect (156 iq) and i know that your picture you posted is just asking for trouble.

also, the comparison to owning a venemous snake and driving is a weak comparison. because if we get in a wreck its normal and nothing bad would happen cause of it. a venemous owner who gets bit and DOESNT have the permit to even own the snake is a blackeye on the HERP community. just like traci said, stuff would happen because of it.

those are just some examples. even if you dont die itll still make news headlines...
Old 01-01-2005, 01:30 PM   #36
Been a tad busy with other things so kinda ignored this till now.

the difference between having found a store willing to board my snake and finind someone that is willing to spend the time to help me in training is the difference between what you think you know and what is really going on . and if you for a minute think im gonna give you the name of either where i have my snake boarded or where im gettign training ,your well out of your head . you might wanna take a step back into your own life and not delve so deeply into mine .
having found a store willing to board my snake
So was this picture taken at a "STORE" if so I know of NO stores that would allow freehandling of the snake in thier store as it opens them to criminal and civil liability. Not to mention a bite in thier store would send the insurance rates through the roof.

So if it was not in a store where was it and who got it out of its cage?

you might wanna take a step back into your own life and not delve so deeply into mine
This is the bussiness of any and all person who responcibly keep reptiles as this type of behavior does impact our hobby in very negative ways.
Old 01-01-2005, 02:11 PM   #37
Karen Hulvey
Originally Posted by Lonermon
but ALL ive gotten is bs from peopel trying to tell me what i think and having all kinds accusations from me being stupid ( with an iq of 189 ?) to how im breakign the law ( when in fact the snake is with a licensed handler) .
Okay so we've got a genius here. Apparently English is his second language because he can't spell, cannot use punctuation correctly and doesn't know where to use capital letters except when he NEEDS it. LOL

Originally Posted by Lonermon
and to those of you that are gonna say " no matter how docile the snake is , no matter how cold it was , no matter how well you know its temperment . your still stupid and asking to be bit " . well i suggest you never get in a car , because no matter how long youve been driving or how alert you are the possability still exhists for you to be killed in a horrible accident.
A car accident is just that . . . an accident. An accident could be someone else's fault.
Freehandling a venomous snake is asking to get bit. It will not be an accident if you get bit and it will be YOUR fault.

It's just a baby so how can you know it's temperament after only having it a few months? You say that it hasn't been at your house. So you don't have a chance to see it every day. So what if the snake was cold, it can still bite.

Here's a story that proves that no venomous snake is "safe" to free handle:
(sorry but I couldn't find the newspaper clipping and I'm trying to get it from the newspaper) This happened in 2001 in Pilot Knob, Missouri. The snake was a timber rattlesnake.

Two guys killed a rattlesnake. They cut its head off. One guy took the head home and the other one took the body home. The one w/the head managed to get bit by the head while fooling around with it and his wife took him to the ER for treatment. According to the guy, it was about 1 hour after they killed the snake. Oh, they took the head to the ER too. Can you say stooopid.

I don't own venomous snakes, I'd like to have a copperhead some day and I don't want any more legislation or for that matter a total ban on them because of people like you who can't act responsibly and handle a hot correctly.

Right now I'm babysitting 4 eastern diamondback rattlesnakes, a timber rattlesnake and a dusky pigmy rattlesnake for a friend who is having a house built. The people he's staying with won't let him keep his snakes at their house. I also have all his nonvenomous snakes too which I care for.
(In another forum and on a chat I said these snakes were WDBs but I got it wrong and after talking to my friend he corrected me, they're EDBs)

He comes over and tends to his venomous snakes, I don't open the cages for any reason. That being said, when he comes over to feed, clean, etc. I have only seen him tail a 5 1/2 footer with the hook just past the snake's head once. The head was nowhere near his body. Everything is done with tongs, hooks and cages with walls that slide in and out. (Snake on one half of cage, wall slid in, empty part of cage cleaned, wall removed, snake coerced into other side of cage, wall slid in and other side of cage cleaned.) He has neat caging that he built for these snakes so he doesn't have to handle them very much.

He handles these snakes responsibly and I'm learning a lot from him.

I hope that your venomous training goes well. I hope that the person training you can explain to you why freehandling a baby cottonmouth in the manner you did was not a good idea. Obviously the people on this forum are getting nowhere with you.
Old 01-02-2005, 04:02 AM   #38
Originally Posted by Seamus Haley
Ehh... he mentioned Irwin as some kind of positive and took photographs of himself freehandling. The guy is clearly a moron. End of story. No debate. I have spoken.
listen . you really wanna start name calling ? is that what you want ? cant possibly prove a point ( which others have been able to without name callign ) this isnt the hell board if all your gonna do is hurl insults i suggest you shut the **** up . and as for being a moron . well i dont suppose that you actually know the meaning of the word , a moron is a person with an intelligence quotient between 50-75 . such a person would not be able to read let alone type . as for you that are so quickto associate typing skills with intelligence . get a clue any 10 year old can use spell checker . but i choose not to . my spellign is fine , my typing sucks and alwasy has , and i could really care less because i get my point across .

and before i have one more person accuse me of being detrimental to the hooby . show proof or shut up . show proof how i have negative;y affected anyone . and you being offended by the picture isnt negatively affecting the hobby so dont even waste your time on that argument . :scatter:
Old 01-02-2005, 05:02 AM   #39
Originally Posted by Mustangrde1
Been a tad busy with other things so kinda ignored this till now.

So was this picture taken at a "STORE" if so I know of NO stores that would allow freehandling of the snake in thier store as it opens them to criminal and civil liability. Not to mention a bite in thier store would send the insurance rates through the roof.

So if it was not in a store where was it and who got it out of its cage?

This is the bussiness of any and all person who responcibly keep reptiles as this type of behavior does impact our hobby in very negative ways.
reread ...
.im not a breeder or a seller that has a setup already made for pictures im merely a guy that catches and raises snakes .

the [picture wasnt taken where the snake is now . i never claimed it was . in fact i openly stated that I dont have the set up for takign pictures . the date ont he picture is in november .thats when i moved the snake out of my home into its current location . since then i have stopped by to see the snake jsut to make sure shes still healthy and fed . i havent handled her . as you stated and i agree with , it would be a violation of store policy , insurance , and a few other levels as well . i have no desire to get them into trouble , or have to move my snake again . heck , if i counst have found somewhere to board her i would have donated her .im proud of how healthy and big she's growing and would like to be able to continue to watch her grow but right now i cant do that and accomplish my goals.. i had originally placed her as soon as i started gettign a responses regardign training . unfortunatly my first contacts didnt pan out . one didnt actually want to train me , but offered to forge the documents for $1500 . i neither have the money no would i do this is if did .the second was willing to offer training but was too far away .i want to do it right and legally and i have no problem putting the time in and learning from those with more experience than i . even if its not more experience it might be a more structured . If it came down to it id much rather donate the snake than have to give up training .but now i have found someone thats not going to charge me and is willing to tech me so im going for it . :scatter:
Old 01-02-2005, 05:27 AM   #40
to all of you that seem so ardently on accusing me of dammaging the hooby . me , who has never tried to lie steal or cheat anyone on this board . every single day i see posts on this board about "reputable" dealers adn breeders ripping peopl off , sellign bad animals , lying about the animals their selling , refusing to answer questions about this animals and so on . with all that crap going on you wana stand ther and tell ME that IM ruining the hobby . me . a guy that doesn't sell any animals . has never tried to rip anyone off, nor have i ever been bitten or caused anyone else to be bitten . ive never encouraged others to own venemous snakes ,but i have encouraged others to own the more docile snakes . all i did was share a picture . i never advised anyone to free handle snakes . i never even said that it was smart or right .in fact i have never denied that it isnt . i have seen people defend a dealer that has repetedly done bad deals and yet you think that IM ruining the hobby ? i think your perspectives are way screwed up .and to the guy that posted that

It is great that you wanted to show everyone your snake but it is nothing unusual..... Infact most neonate cottons look exactly like that

um no the florida cottonmouth is different than the common eastern cottonmouth . and even if it looked like every other one , its still a very pretty snake and i wanted to share it . i can see now that i was wasting my time .

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