Watch-Out! LLL Reptiles selling USED items as NEW!

I have bought a lot of stuff off them in the past without any problems whatsoever but by the looks of that heat panel (definetely used) and all the peoples comments here i think i will be a little more weary in the future as to whether or not i will buy from them again. I would definetely try to get a new heat panel as that one is used and its life expectency has been shortened. Looks like a case of a business that got to big for itself and now it doesnt worry about the little guys anymore, especially the customer service part of thier business.

Nick Bonn

" Breeding reptiles is my obsession not my hobby or my business, doing something for a hobby is what you do when you have the time and the mind to do it, as a business you do it primarily for the money and your livelihood, as an obsession you do it to see how well you can do it and to see what you can achieve and always strive to do better."

We rarely respond on this forum, however, in this case, a breif explanation is required. Vake had called friday to express concern that his radiant heat panel was used. As we explained to him then, and I will repeat now, all of the radiant heat panels we have sold over the last few months were unused. They came from Pro Exotics who had them in their retail store in Colorado for some time, but had never sold them. They discounted them to us to purchase all he had remaining, and we turned around and sold them on our website for well below the suggested retail price. With the exception of having dust (which we normally cleaned off, however completely forgot to in this case), and discoloration around the edges from the product just sitting on shelves for quite some time, the product is completely unused. The suggested retail price by Helix for this item is $96.00. Vake got this product for $65.99, and took our 10% holiday special as well, so $59 and change plus shipping. On friday when we spoke (the only time we have spoken), and he expressed concern (which I understand, the product was dusty, our mistake), he did not at that time ask for any discount, or to return the product, only to ask if it was used. I explained this to him then, and to this forum now. He is more than welcome to ship the product back to us if he is unhappy with it. We have not had that opportunity to offer any resolution to him yet, as this is the way he decided to handle this situation. It is absolutely no problem to take the item back, but since he seemed ok with the explanation on the phone, we left it at that. He then emailed on saturday, and called as well, to complain more and tell us he posted about us, and the manager over the weekend explained that we would contact him on monday and figure it out. Vake can contact Pro Exotics to verify this information. Since the products were unused, completely, and so much cheaper than buying directy from Helix, I am not sure what else to offer except his money back after the product is returned to us. This is the same explanation that he received on friday, he just failed to mention that on the first post.

Scott Wesley
Manager - LLLReptile & Supply

I read what LLL said,, and the thing is,,,
No matter where the Heat panels came from in the past,, no matter what they sold for,, the customer deserves what he paid for,, and what he paid for was a "new" heat panel,,,, not one with drill holes in it,,( which they don't come with) as i have 2 of them,,, not being soiled,, and scratched,, and most of all not being discolored yellow,,, If they have been plugged in and run at all or used at all they are not "new"... i do realize the price he bought them for,, and that is a good price,, but it was not such a good price for a used and soiled heat panel,,, and that is what this guy got,,,, not a new heat panel,,, Another thing is if he called and asked for a resolution on Saturday,, why should he be put off until Monday for a resolution...? I mean you say he spoke to the "manager" i thought the buck always stops with the "manager"...
The last thing is very simple,, if Vake decided to come here,, and speak about his dealing with your company and is willing to provide facts and pictures to back up his claims,, Then he has every right to do so,,, for you to say "We have not had that opportunity to offer any resolution to him yet, as this is the way he decided to handle this situation" is way off base,, you did have a chance to rectify the situation by your own words on Saturday,, obviously you knew he called and emailed,, and you said he did yourself,, how much more does a person need to do to rectify a situation..?
All Vake wants is what every customer in the reptile world wants,, to be treated Like a customer you appreciate,, as he is spending his hard earned money with your company,,, ,, and get what they paid for (IE) "new heat panel" in a timely manner,,, ,,, nothing more and nothing less,, that is what we all want,,,
Just my 2 cents,,

Gonna have to agree with Joe on that one.. I would never dream of boxing up an item for one of my customers that looked like that. Then get on the BOI and complain about the customer...sheesh... There are twom things I want when I buy something.. Top notch animal/product and someone on the phone or email that acts like they want me to have it and care if I am satisified with the transaction..
-Matt Graybeal

I've never had a good experience with LLL. I live close by, so I go in all the time, and have bought a few things in the past, but never will again. I looked at their booth on Saturday in Pomona, and asked them a few questions, but I never really got answers. Mostly the questions were about the origins of their animals, and most of the answers were, "we don't know." I think it'd be wise, LLL, for you to keep tabs on where your animals come from. Maybe feed your leopard geckos every now and then too!

I've had my fair share of bad dealings with LLL, twice with animals but I feel this adds to their negative customer service reputation.

The first order was a Ball Python which I received dead, the 2nd item(s) were a 10-Lot Rose hairs and Emperor Scorpions - half my batch arrived dead! And of course, they did not refund my money even though it was overnight arrival during the month of September (not too hot and not too cold). I no longer do business with them.

I have purchased a couple of animals from LLL at the Raleigh shows. Unfortunately none are still around. We had 2 leos that died a couple of months after we got them. I think we had a pac man frog from them as well that lived for about a year only because we force fed him. I dont even think about buying from them anymore and I steer people in a different direction when they ask about dealers. I do check out their tables to see what kind of animals dont look so healthy. Not to say that every animal looks sickly but all too often I see skinny leos and a few others that need more care.

EP Forehand

Like I stated in my last post , I have pruchased several things from LLL in the past with no problem whatsoever. And in this case scott said he is more that willing to resolve this issue to the customers satisfaction. He also was big enough to admit it was thier fault it went out in that condition and we all know that we have dealers/breeders/wholesalers come on here and fight tooth and nail rather than admit any wrong doing in any transaction. In my opinion this was a bad post that is now a settled dispute as long as the customer gets his new one.since I have never had a problem with them I guess I will continue to buy from them. They do have good prices on a lot of thier stuff. Thier customer service isnt the greatest but if I can save some money it usually outweighs the service. So I will wait and see.

Nick Bonn

" Breeding reptiles is my obsession not my hobby or my business, doing something for a hobby is what you do when you have the time and the mind to do it, as a business you do it primarily for the money and your livelihood, as an obsession you do it to see how well you can do it and to see what you can achieve and always strive to do better."

Thier customer service isnt the greatest but if I can save some money it usually outweighs the service.

One of these days that is going to back and bite you.
Saving a buck on something from a place with poor CS is not smart. If there is a problem, you will be out a lot more than the few pennies you originally saved. I would much rather pay a little more and buy from someone who is going to stand behind what they sell and I think a lot of other people share that point of view.
The point is, LLL never advertised these as used and damaged so Vake had no reason to believe he was getting anything but a new panel. When he complained about it, he was basically given a brush off.
His posting here has also painted a picture of just what it is like to do business with this company. The unhappy customers outweigh the happy ones which IMO means they will not get my money (no matter how cheap their prices are).

I have dealt with them multiple times in the past with no problems whatsoever. Should I now turn my back on them even though they always took care of me?? I just did a search on them and there are a lot of "good Guys" posts on them as well.

#1) LLLReptiles hits the mark with me.
Bought an established Biak Chondro in October from "Skittles" at thier Chicago show table. Good price, Nice guys, entusiastic sellers, Chondro started eating right away and hasnt missed since. Shed once and is a fiesty little Biak. How are your Chondros doing Skittles?
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Joe Black

Balls, Red Tails, Carpets, GTPs, Milks, Corns, Kings

#2) These are three herp supply companies I've bought from on numerous occasions with no problems:
1. Midwest ( www.tongs.com )
2. LLL Reptile (www.lllreptile.com )
3. Big Apple Herpetological (www.bigappleherp.com)
All three are great supply companies with good prices.
Chris Raden
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Chris Raden

#3) I'm going to limit my list to people that we bought from this year--othwerwise I'll be typing all day (LOL)--see, there are lots of good guys out there!

Shannon Brown--High Sierra Reptiles
Jerry Hartley--awesome rosy boas
HISS--Kelli again!
Scales--Daniel and Wendy Wedeking
Reptile Kingdom--Alan Both
Cheri Smith--thanks for all her hard work too
Dragons Den Herp--Kevin Dunne
Rob RK Reptiles
Envy Reptiles
Leonard Davidson
Cindy Senjanovich
Herb (oh, no, forget the last name--albino beauty snakes!)
reptilefood.com--William is the best!
LLL Reptile
Colorado Rocky Mountain Rodents-- coloradorodents.com
and our local guys at Subterranean Jungle of course
and glad to see Mickey Hinkle The Lizard King back!

I'm very sorry if I forgot anyone--I'm still on my first cup of coffee!

A good guy thread, YEY!!!!
(Does this count as a love bomb?)

no wonder we're always broke and busy--look at that list! LOL!
Dana
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Dana or Loren Pennebaker
Sundial Reptile
www.sundialreptile.com

#4) It's been said many times but I will say it again....They are great. Top notch as far as I am concerned.

Chris Marston

#5) LLL

Bought an incubater at the S.D. show, got it home and it did not work properly called them and they had one out the next day. They apid for me to ship back on there account. The new one came and same problem so that one got sent back as well and we just switched to a different model. They were great at taking care of the problem. I have gotten crickets from them and they came top rate 100% live plus extra. I would recomend them over and over again there customer service is excelent!
The Reptile House

there were a lot more than this.So they do have a lot of faithful customers as well. If I had never purchased from them before I would be a little leary to do so due to all the posts here but since I have bought from them without problem I have no reason personally to turn my back on them.

Nick Bonn