Randall Ellis, Reptile Locators (BAD GUY)

now im undermining the boi ok griz if you say so i guess it must be so. lets just write it off as fake emails and because the OP is in africa well they must be scammers anyway...yeah thats the boi way... NOT, where you been? or better yet wheres randell?,,,,,,,,thomas

Originally Posted by Griz

For the love of God Thomas. How do you know those emails to be true? How do YOU know he did not pay for these animals? You have absolutely nothing to go by yet you are jumping to conclusions. If you cannot comprehend that then there's nothing left here for me to say. Your undermining this boards ability to seek and find justice. That's one of the biggest travesties here.

Griz

Come on Griz. Randy needs to answer to these accusations. I know it has only been a little while but I think stating "Randy you should take care of this" isn't throwing him under the bus. To insuate that because it is an African exporter and he is from an area of known scammers that he is possibly one as well is just as unfair as it is to find Randy guilty right away isn't it? He posted emails and hasn't that been an acceptable form of proof or has that changed? Isn't that what we always hear on the BOI (post the emails)? If they can be so easily faked why have we ever accepted them? Point being is Randy does need to clear this up. We need to give him time to respond. I think at this point a valid complaint has been brought up and backed up with emails if they are false then Randy needs to address it. No offense but it seems to me you have already made up your mind even without Randy posting.

I agree with many of the others, Bob. This looks bad for Randy. The emails looks and sound legitimate to me. Randy has apparently been selling the animals in question, and he has not responded here despite being a member of this site.

Having said that, I haven't fully made up my mind as we haven't heard the other side, but the facts so far presented, and so far not refuted in any way, are unfavorable to Randy, to say the least.

Maria, could you post the manifest for the animals shipped?

JimO, what was being said countless times was this......"Randall pay the guy." It was not Randall, come here and clear this up and let us know your side of the story. It was assume his guilt without any real concrete proof. I, for one, and I know there are countless others, are no longer going to be nearly as apt to believe a string of emails unless there is other proof to go along with it. Had this been a week since the original post then yes, I would start lending some credibility to the original poster. But, less than 24 hours have elapsed and no, the original posters emails are not nearly enough for me to assign guilt, as of yet. While I agree that the original poster has made the very beginnings of a case here it is not enough for any intelligent individual to automatically tell Randall to "pay the man." You and I both know that.

Lawson, with all due respect, your word and thoughts mean absolutely nothing to most of us here. You have proven yourself to be less then trustworthy and as such your opinion is in the "red" for most of us. While that shouldn't (and won't) stop you from posting, you have to understand that information you provide will be taken with a grain of salt.

Griz

Originally Posted by Otter_23

Come on Griz. Randy needs to answer to these accusations. I know it has only been a little while but I think stating "Randy you should take care of this" isn't throwing him under the bus.

Mark, go back and read the posts. It was not come here and explain yourself.

[quote=Otter_23)To insuate that because it is an African exporter and he is from an area of known scammers that he is possibly one as well is just as unfair as it is to find Randy guilty right away isn't it? [/quote]

Mark, honestly ask yourself that question. If you had a person from Africa approach you about reptile dealings then you would not assign a certain amount of skepticism to them? We all know that answer.

Originally Posted by Otter_23

He posted emails and hasn't that been an acceptable form of proof or has that changed? Isn't that what we always hear on the BOI (post the emails)? If they can be so easily faked why have we ever accepted them?

For some. But, not with me. Emails are certainly a start and if Randall does not come here to defend himself then those same emails can be judge/jury for him in the end, but not in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Otter_23

Point being is Randy does need to clear this up. We need to give him time to respond. I think at this point a valid complaint has been brought up and backed up with emails if they are false then Randy needs to address it. No offense but it seems to me you have already made up your mind even without Randy posting.

Then you have not read my posts accurately. I don't know Randall. I know nothing about him. But, all I have said all along is to wait for additional proof before telling someone to "pay the man." It's too early in the ballgame to jump the gun as some are so prone to do.

Randall absolutely needs to clear this up. He needs to provide proof that he did in fact pay for this. The originator needs to provide at least a manifest showing what was sent and for how much. There is a lot of information still missing before anyone can take much of a stance.

Griz

I'd like two grains if you please, he's REALLY not trustworthy, lawson I mean.

Randall:

This is crap! You need to fix this problem, NOW! How are we to every find a exporter that we can trust in Africa when you are doing this sort of CRAP to them? You not only are effecting your standing in the hobby but taking everybody else with you. Pay up Randall!

Al Coritz
Deadly Beautiful Zoological, LLC
www.deadlybeatuiful.com

Originally Posted by Phobos

Randall:

This is crap! You need to fix this problem, NOW! How are we to every find a exporter that we can trust in Africa when you are doing this sort of CRAP to them? You not only are effecting your standing in the hobby but taking everybody else with you. Pay up Randall!

Al Coritz
Deadly Beautiful Zoological, LLC
www.deadlybeatuiful.com

Originally Posted by Dave Lawson

You have sold the animals that is a fact now send this man that trusted you his money. Things like this Randy make it hard for other importers to get animals in.

Originally Posted by thomas davis

randall pay these people. i am completely floored with the honesty factor here 10+K in animals upfront???and you cant/wont/havnt paid them thats really sad, its ironic randall mentions the boi to this person and then treats them like this you really need to fix this randall,,,,,,,,
thomas davis

All of this with virtually no proof of any kind. Need I say more?

Griz

I'm not sure what additional proof African Animals could provide. Dennis asked for the manifest, which would be useful in comparing recent ads by Reptile Locators, and the animals shipped. However, if you're of the mind set that African Animals forged the emails then they could have doctored the manifest also, to correspond with Randy's ads.

They sound trustworthy to me and the emails look legitimate. They did try to post this a week ago but their thread was shut down due to incorrect posting. If they were in some type of battle with Reptile Locators, it seems to me Randy would have spoken up then, even though he wasn't named in that thread. I am sure he knew it was about his company. It doesn't seem likely that AA just pulled his name out of a hat, and decided to pick on Randy.