Quote:
Originally posted by Suncoast Herpetological
Neil
The full Email exchange between the two of you would undoubtedly be exremely useful in this instance. It looked like Greg only posted the messages that he thought would support his case.
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*Here are all the e-mail exchanges Gregory Bowman and I have had from 1/20/03 to 2/3/03 So here the TRUTH comes out!
1/20/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Im interested in your sri lankan pair. What is the best you can do on the pair including shipping for a today purchase?
Note; they MUST be a 1.1 or 0.2 NO TWO MALES ALLOWED! lol
Thanks for your consideration
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
818 391-4553
----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
Sent 02:47 PM, Jan 20th, 2003 from I.P. Address 172.194.231.200
Hi Gregory,
Well I just lowered their price today. I will offer you this: Price shipped $500.00 Pair which I know shipping is going to cost more than $50.00
I'll be at my store tomorrow if you wish to call me.
Sincerely,
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/20/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
OK, consider them sold then. I ve paypal ed your account today. Here is my preamble, I hope you don't mind and nothing personal:
Disclaimer:
I make clear to everyone I buy animals from online a few considerations only after being SCREWED horribly by a guy in TAMPA BAY who owns a "pit". He sold me a dying regular burmese saying it was a pure gold true light phase. I notified him after opening the box, he said; "I just fed the snake, I dont guarantee live delivery and probably shouldnt have shipped it"; and insisted it was a true light phase burm. Dark as coal and bubbling mucous. He does not belong selling animals and I have reported it to Kingsnake; kingsnake will do nothing and he still posts ads on the board. I will make sure he is out of business soon and let everyone know what a con man he is, in my opinion. I will let Kingsnake decide what side of the fence they want to stand on. If they continue to allow him to scam people via the board; they may suffer the embarassment.
That being said; honesty is much better in the long run for everyone and I tell everyone NOT INTENDED for anyone but for EVERYONE:
1. Please dont sell me a snake you've been nursing for months and is dying. I do not forget deliberate misconduct especially when helpless animals are involved. Profit from good faith, not scamming. I can be a customer for life if you treat me decently, or a royal pain in your ass. You decide.
2. Please don't sell me a snake after finding out it has IBD and has six weeks to live. If I find out, I will.... (censored).
3. Please dont sell me a snake that is the size of a kingsnake when its 3 years old and should be 20 lbs plus.
A guy on kingsnake is selling a 2001 blood python for $160 this week. Its 1/2 lb and 24 inches. He emailed me saying he feeds it 1 mouse every two weeks. I wanted to kill him. I wrote him back suggesting he go to VPI or other sites and read up on proper feeding and care. He replied with a F.U. email.
4. Please let me know if the snake loves to bite handlers. I don't care much but its nice to know the temperment BEFORE its stuck to my face wanting to swallow my head.
5. Please learn how to ship; DO NOT put heat packs without separation by wrapping in paper. IT COOKS the snake. A slightly cool snake is fine; a boiled one is only good for soup. Extra tape saves boxes and snakes lives. Label your boxes and don't charge me $40 for "boxing" alone . I can handle your cost but don't profit from it.
6. Email me the tracking number and shipper when you are able; Let me be responsible for the snake; shipping is not great these days and many a time Ive chased down packages where the animal would have died if I was not so dilegent.
7. If you cannot guarantee live delivery; SELL PET ROCKS! I don't want your product. Don't ship an animal if its eaten a 4 lb rabbit the day before. Withhold water for 6 hours before shipping to avoid asperation pneumonia.
8. Mites; If you have mites; let me know at least. I can deal with honesty, not stupidity. A shot of ivermectin and a spray with provent a mite is simple, treating my entire collection isn't.
9. If your snake has particular eating problems; let me know.
10. Im very good at probing; don't sell me a snake unless you are CONFIDENT and confirm its sex. If it turns out not to be the right sex I expect you to either discount the snake, refund my money and pay for shipping back to you, or work with me in some fashion that is acceptable. If we cannot agree on a solution; the only solution is YOU pay for your mistake; not me.
10. One thing I do when shipping snakes to assure they get the snake I ship is mark the head with a small drop of day glow nail polish. Other than "microchipping" the snake, I find it is accurate. It wont hurt the snake and if the owner wants to confirm the color and location; I know they got the right snake. I take a photo of every snake I ship and as one comes out of the shipping box. If the snake is sick; they can take it to a vet but the vets report MUST have the ID mark listed including color and location. Ive never had a buyer report a sick snake but Ive found this keeps everyone honest, especially when I pick the color, photo the snake, and keep a file on it. This prevents the ol switcheroo.
Do I sound paranoid? I dont think so; just careful.
I hope you don't think me picky; I just make sure YOU know what I expect and allow you to pass on the sale if you cannot perform. I assure you it will cost you much more if you act in bad faith.
End of Disclaimer. WHEW! too bad I have to read the riot act; please do not take it personally unless it applies to you and this email does constitute an agreement. By accepting it, you accept the terms.
Thanks
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
(818) 391-4553
1/20/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Wow, what a disclaimer....lol I like it though! I stand 100% behind any animal I sell. I've been burned before and what separates me from other dealers is I won't sell an animal that is unhealthy or something I wouldn't want. From time to time if I have an animal that’s not satisfactory "usually not feeding" I give it away free to anyone willing to pamper it. I run a very clean shop and can vouch no mites or illnesses, after all I trust having my own breeding collection here!
One thing about Sri Lankans, they are not usually very tame so these can bite though I've moved them around a lot freehand during cage cleanings and never been bitten.
Having the problems you've had with people why don't you post them here at this link:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/
You can also see what people have to say about the people you may be buying from!
Also don't worry about my packing, in 15 years we have only had 2 or 3 packages said to arrive doa or unsatisfactory and I'm proud of that.
I can ship tomorrow if I have an address.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/20/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Haha...I hope you got a laugh out of it,
Well, I try to be honest while trying not to offend; I wish more people would share information on how to ship, dealing with online purchases and keep people straight and narrow.
Most have been really good people and stand behind their animals. There are a few that ruin it but I guess its that way in any business. I tend to be firm; yet very understanding about situations that arise.
For example; I purchased a labyrinth burmese from Mitch at Diamond Reptiles in Florida. The snake was fat, friendly and obviously well kept. I can tell a nice healthy snake just by running my hand over it; it feels like marble with a tiny bit of oil....Im sure you know the feeling. Well, a few days go by and I offer food to the snake. I find a snake with a swollen face and in distress. The inside of his mouth had an ulcer in it that looked like a bullet wound. I irrigated it, applied a topical rinse of batril, and gave him a shot.
I wrote Mitch and said HOLY MOLY your snake is in bad shape.....whats the deal? He wrote back saying the snake was fine when shipped but was overly horny the last few weeks trying to get to a female; maybe it was from him trying to get out and he didnt notice it. He indicated he would have sent me some batril if I hadnt mentioned I had some and suggested polysporin as well; generally being helpful and to let him know how the snake does and left it open as to taking responsibilty for the problem.
To me, thats responsible. I checked the snake the next day and the wound had almost vanished. (topical batril seems to work wonders). Mitch was honest enough to let me know what the problem could have been and nice enough to follow through. For that, I respect him and the snake is fine now.
I purchased a guaranteed female blood; beautiful snake; but the probe vanished in her like the grand canyon. It was for a client who had a male and I had already taken his money. I contacted the seller; he swore to me it was a female and had laid eggs; he had a photo of her with them. I said NO WAY NO HOW a probe can go that far!! He sent me the photo; sure enough the snake is nicely wrapped around the eggs and her patterning is identical. So ya never know.
Generally I think reptile people are good folks; a few, however, should be fed to my 20' albino burmese. LOL
Thanks for the suggestion on the forum page. I am ready to unleash the attorneys on Mr. "PIT" and put him out of business. A complete crook, in my opinion.
I have a nice pair of Sri Lankans; they are gentle as puppies. I agree though and think they are more "shy" than most.
When shipping the snakes, please make sure to insure them. Its only a few dollars and its worth it in case of the worst.
Thanks again and let me know with a tracking number when you ship.
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
(818) 391-4553
1/20/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
BTW the address is on your paypal email and my contact number to include is (818) 391-4553
If not,
Offices Of Gregory Bowman
16931 Rayen Street
North Hills CA 91343
(818) 391-4553, 894-6635
Thanks
1/23/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Just checking on shipping status.
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
(818) 391-4553
1/23/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
If you didnt get the shipping information from the paypal receipt;
Offices of Gregory Bowman
16931 Rayen Street
North Hills CA 91343
(818) 391-4553 894-6635
Thanks
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
1/23/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Hi Gregory,
I will be shipping Monday or Tuesday. I will keep you advised.
Thanks,
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/24/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve;
Just hope its not subzero there when you ship; weather here is nice but its always nice here(sorry for the left coast jab). If you think its too cold to ship via overnight; I can pick them up at LAX via Delta Dash if you are a verified shipper. Im not sure if that will work for you but just a suggestion.
If you think its ok to ship via overnight; I would suggest packing with styro peanuts, tape the box well so no air is exchanged and using two extra heat packs wrapped in newsprint and taped to avoid burning. Im sure you will use your best judgment; I just got a shipment today from OK and it was icy.
I always mark on the box KEEP WARM 70 -75 degrees and LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES Usually the shippers are cool enough to keep them off the freezing loading dock when they see that.
Thanks and I really do want that white phase burm......... but alas......If the buyer backs out let me know.
Thanks again
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
(818)391-4553
1/24/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Hi Greg,
I'll keep you posted on shipping, I don't want you getting them frozen.
Thanks,
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/29/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
The Sri-Lankans are on their way to you, Becky left a message for you in your voice mailbox.
The unusual Burm is available again as the snake that was sent me arrived DOA which is being returned to the sender:-( Pic attached
The highest cash offer was $550.00
Any offers?
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/29/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
UUUGH!!! you mean the snake in the photo came to you dead?? OMG thats such a shame. Poor snake.
1/29/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Yeah, it sucks it arrived doa. I think it overheated as the snakes tempeture was 85 upon arrival.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/29/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Ive always urged people to use caution with heat packs. I heard of a guy putting ten heat packs with some albino balls. DOA and a horrible lesson learned. I wish Kingsnake would spend 2 minutes of their time to have a forum on shipping methods, shippers, laws, and tips from those who ship a lot.
Ive seen the most rediculous shipping methods; the worst being putting a snake directly on heat packs; I pulled the snake out; warm to the touch, and brownish fluid coming from its mouth. Another person shipped three snakes wrapped in bubble wrap; not styrofoam. The box was deformed from UPS football.......the snakes seemed fine though.
I always let people know that wrapping a heat pack in a layer of newsprint will allow it to last longer, not heat up as much, and is much safer. Still, people dont listen. I really think its liability that rests with the heat pack company. I think they should provide a cardboard insert where the heatpack can be placed that buffers the pack from the animal. Ten cents could save a lot of snakes.
Sorry again for the loss.
1/29/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Let me know how the Sri Lankans arrive when you get them. They were both pissy and hungry when I packed them so they should be ready for some rats.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/30/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve;
USPS lost the pythons. Ive been on the phone with them and they are NO HELP.... 1-800 275-8777 x8066 I talked to Robert, a supervisor and he intstigated an investigation.
They kept giving me the run around with 5 different numbers then kept telling me they couldnt start an investigation due to not having a verified address for you.......I asked them what the hell that mattered with a tracking package number and recipient info.
They said they would "take a look around" and see if the box is sitting somewhere..........................
Feel free to call me or call them and SCREAM.
If the snakes come DOA, this letter confirms the non delivery status so far. I will file a claim immediately and take the snakes to the vet if alive or whatever is needed at the time.
Please let me know what the shipping cost was so I can include that in the claim.
Gregory Bowman
(818) 391-4553
1/31/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve;
The snakes don't look good. Ive decided to write you rather than call since I am too angry to speak. The smaller one is limp and the larger is railing and diarrhea in the sack. Ive wiped them down, gave them a shot of B complex, and put them in a hospital cage.
I am not sure if they were damaged in shipment since USPS wont tell me how they were shipped. I didn't dare ship them back or they would surely be dead.
Lets review what has occurred;
Yesterday:
1. USPS doesn't deliver by 3 pm.
2. I spend 2 hours trying to track the shipment. I am forced to cancel my afternoon meetings.
3. It is assigned to be found by Robert at 1-800-275-8777
Today:
1. I called at 8 am and talked to Amy at the USPS 800 #; she said she would try and find the package; that she shows its at LAX but they can't find it. I urged her to "bother" them on the phone until they do.
2. Amy called at 8 45 and leaves message that she talked to Leo in PA with the USPS express mail shipping center. Her first statement is "its illegal to ship snakes through the post office" Then she said Leo informed her no live animals were allowed to be shipped that night due to weather conditions. She informed me he indicated that if they did take a package it was not marked as live animals and was shipped in regular cargo; unpressurized and surely would not be a good situation, most likely dead. She also repeatedly indicated its illegal to ship snakes via USPS......
3. I call Amy back and tell her to find the package whatever it takes. I told her I was not the shipper and what relevance does that apply to this situation. She said they would not be responsible.
4. My annex calls indicating they have the package for my pick up. I have to leave a mediation meeting to retrieve the package.
5. Amy calls and leaves message the package is at the annex.
6. I drive an hour to pick up the package. I speak to the supervisor and she informs me the following;
A. The shipper was informed shipping snakes via USPS is illegal; if the snakes are dead or sick, its the shippers fault.
B. The shipment was not insured for any dollar amount. If there was any fault of the USPS, which there was, they only have $100 liability. NO EXCEPTIONS. and probably no liability due to the shipper violating their rules.
C. They cannot tell if the package was shipped as live, or shipped as regular cargo (pressurized vs unpressurized)
D. If I have a claim-it is only with the shipper not them; they have no responsibilty.
After sending you my "riot act" of what I expect from you as a shipper, after making sure you were aware of how I expect proper shipping, after telling you about the failures Ive experienced in shipping, you still decide to ship without insurance, violating the law, and waiving any right of filing a claim if the snakes are sick or dead due to USPS screw up.
What is wrong with you?
If I really were someone more concerned about myself and not these poor snakes I would have refused service and had them sent back.
I lost a half days work just chasing down these snakes. I have no idea what condition they are in other than stressed to hell, and I have no idea how they were shipped to conclude the extent of their journey.
Forgive my frustration but what would you do in my position?
I expect you to "fix" this situation appropriately given the events that have transpired. What is appropriate is your decision.
Sincerely
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research Foundation
(818) 391-4553
1/31/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Gregory,
As we spoke on the phone yesterday I told you not to worry that likely the shipment would arrive today I tracked the package on the USPS web site and apparently they made a delivery attempt at 9:54am and nobody was their to receive them at that time? I spoke to you about getting pictures and you said you could e-mail them to me upon their arrival, can you send me some?
As far as compensation for you: The price of the Sri Lankans was a steal and easily worth 50% to 75% or more than what you paid for them. I'm sorry but I cannot be held responsible for carrier delays as it's out of my hands.
If you are unhappy with the animals, I will give you 10 days or less to return them for a full refund plus the cost to return them. If you need heat packs to make a return I'll be glad to send you some.
Track & Confirm
Delivery Status You entered EU54 1342 175U S We attempted to deliver your item at 9:54 am on January 31, 2003 in NORTH HILLS, CA 91343 and a notice was left. A second delivery attempt will be made. If unsuccessful, we will hold it for five business days and then it will be returned to the sender. Status is updated every evening. Please check again later.
Sincerely,
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
1/31/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve;
The price was negotiated before I dealt with this issue. Saying they were discounted after this rediculousness is not relevant. The price was consistant with other sources.
The delivery attempt was a phone call to me indicating they had the package at the North Hills annex; the box was never sent out for delivery. I informed them I was not at home; I talked to the supervisor at 9:54 am via my cell phone and informed them, in that they needed a signature, I would have to come pick them up. No notice was left at my office and I did have employees there. You can call the supervisor directly if you do not believe me; (818) 895-3073.
My previous email to you made it clear to insure them. you did not.
The snakes are in a hospital cage and I do not want to stress them until stabilized. I will take a picture of them if they die, certainly.
If you assert I "got a deal" and if I don't like it, to return them.......I cannot do that unless you are asking me to commit a federal crime. I just found out TODAY it is illegal to ship them interstate without CITES 1 permits.
I will contact Fish and Wildlife to find out what the requirements are if you like, and pull the permits from Washington DC.; but I must declare where I got them and who I bought them from and how they were shipped to me. I got the invoice from you but I don't see any Captive Bred Declaration or CITES 1 permit for interstate transport.
Also, should I submit a claim with USPS for their bumbled shipment?
Let me know what you want me to do.
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research Foundation
(818) 391-4553
1/31/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Gregory,
Like you said the price was negotiated before this issue. Indian Pythons (Python m. molurus) require that the recipient and not the shipper have a Captive Bred Wildlife Permit. Sri-Lankan Pythons (Python m. pimbura) are fine to ship across state lines. I know this cause I held a USDI Captive Bred Wildlife Permit for many years for Indian Pythons & Radiated Tortoises.
I don't think taking a few pictures of the snakes in their "Hospital Cage" are going to hurt them in any way so please send me pictures.
Insurance on the package has nothing to do with any of this. I gave you a 100% Satisfaction and Live Delivery Guarantee and if they arrived dead I would have taken responsibility and you could have returned them for a 100% full refund including cost of shipping them back.
The only claim that can be made with the USPS is getting a refund on the cost of shipping $53.45 which I would have to do on this end.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
2/2/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve;
Still waiting for your answer on what you want to do about this problem. The snakes are seemingly very shocked and the larger one is bubbly, probably an RI setting in. The smaller one is just listless and limp. I will take them to the vet tomorrow if you want. Ill need you to credit my paypal account for the cost of the vet bills; I think $100 should cover it including any antibiotics or tests. I can email you the Vet report and bill when I get it. I certainly don't want to pay it out of my pocket given the fact USPS screwed up on shipment. They can pay reimburse you for the vet bills. I can't submit a claim since Im not the shipper.
Im sorry I was mistaken about the permits but was told by a reliable source that I will be in HUGE trouble if I ship them. They told me $5000 fine and confiscation of the animals.
Since you asserted with confidence in your previous email that these snakes are ok to ship across state lines without a Fish and Wildlife permit; I will do so and include your email with the shipment after I contact Fish and Wildlife about it and explain what happened. I certainly don't want to commit a Federal crime and get fined big money while the snake are taken. I hear if they are confiscated they rarely are ever returned and usually with a huge bill.
I know you are closed tomorrow. If you like, I can contact Fish and Wildlife monday and find out what is needed to ship. Should I explain the whole situation and where I got them? Which phone number should I give them if they want to contact you? Ill show them your email so they know its ok to ship.
Also, I will file a complaint with USPS and talk to the Inspector General on how rediculous this whole situation was in their mishandling of the Pimburas. I do not agree that insurance is not an issue. Had you insured them as I asked you to, I could submit a claim due to their mishandling of the package if the snakes expire and/or my costs associated with finding them and vet bills should they occur. The insurance would have cost you about a $1.
I will wait to hear from you as to what I should do.
Thanks
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
(818) 391-4553
2/2/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Gregory,
I been keeping records of our communications and already answered your previous e-mail and didn't get a reply with pictures that I've asked for that you said you would send me the day of delivery. I ask again SEND ME PICTURES!!!!
I've corresponded with Mitch from Diamond Reptile and Neil from Tampa Snake Pit. I asked both of them about your business transactions. This is one reply I got this come from Neil Gubitz.
Steve.... I only have WebTV, and I can't read "word" attachments, they
have to be jpegs.... but, it doesn't matter.... Gregory Bowman IS FULL
OF ****!!.... He bought a light-phase burm from me that was in perfect
shape.... he gets it in, and immediately starts telling me the snake
wasn't a light phase because it darkened right up when he took it out
(bull****!), then, he tells me that the snake has a URI and he was
taking it to the vet.... I told him to just send the snake back and I
would refund his $200 he paid for it (it was 6' long).... he tells me he
doesn't want to stress the snake out by shipping it back, I let it
go.... then I get an email later on saying that he wants me to pay him
$1000!!!! to pay for the vet and the useless $60 snake (it was a normal
burm, remember.... his words).... I ask him to send me pictures of the
snake??.... The next thing I get was a PAYPAL SUMMONS that they were
made aware of this possible FRAUD and my case was under
investigation??.... About a month after that, PayPal tells me that they
don't get involved when it's only over what someone EXPECTED!!.... I
never spoke or emailed paypal in that whole month.... I laughed my ass
off!!.... Then I get a letter from his lawyer about a couple of weeks
ago saying basically the same thing about the $1000.... yeah,
right!!.... Screw that idiot!.... He ain't getting a DIME out of
me!!....
How's that???
....Neil %>))
Apparently people are selling you perfectly healthly animals and you are trying to make false claims.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
2/2/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve,
Apparently you would like me to show you the vet report and emails from Neil Gubitz, the bills, and the sick snake. You will see them after a judgment is entered. Thanks for getting Neil to comment; it will be entered into the evidence that is being collected in a lawsuit against him. Get Neil to say more; I appreciate it. Further, the District Attorney will get a copy.
Clearly, you are not willing to remedy this situation and your unfounded inquiry to Neil and Mitch, Mitch WHO was never asked for a refund, dissatisfation or remedy and was nice to offer medication but was not needed.
If Mitch has a problem with me, he certainly didnt inform me. I clarified with Mitch that I wondered what was wrong with the snake and he and I agreed what had happened. The snake does have a bit of mouth injury still due to his horniness. I never requested money, drugs, or discount from Mitch after he explained why the injury may have been there.
I did call Mitch after getting this email and he indicated you never told him WHY you called, and he never said that I falsely accused him of shipping a sick snake. I explained the entire situation about you shipping CITES 1 snakes through the post office without permits. I will not say what he said about the situation you are in now. He and I have no problems and I appreciated his integrity. You have deliberately misconstrued this information for your own use and jeopardized my future business with Diamond Reptile.
Just so you can see our conversation via email.
From Mitch:
Subj: Re: Labyrinth info
Date: 1/13/03 2:03:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
Info@diamondreptile.com
To:
THEDIETCOKEGUY@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)
Just went out. I think the shipping will be a tad more then expected. He weighed more then I thought.
I will let you know.
anyway Fedex tracking # is 8383 4304 1290
He has 4 heat packs in the box so he should be all set.
And I know he is ready to breed as soon as you get him. He wanted my albino female and was trying his best to get to her cage.
Have a good one
Mitch
Diamond Reptile Breeders
P.O. BOX 2486
Bushnell, FL 33513
www.diamondreptile.com
Ph. (352)568-3378
Fax(734)448-5003
Subj: Re: Male labyrinth
Date: 1/19/03 10:55:30 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: THEDIETCOKEGUY
To:
Info@diamondreptile.com
Mitch;
It certainly could be from him trying to get out; it definately looks so tramatic that I can only assume it could be:
1. a tumor DOUBTFUL
2. an abscess; Doubtful
3. a trauma from a head pusher.
Ive seen nose rubs, head rubs, and can see how this guy could have caught his head in something trying to get out.
The good news is Ive irrigated the wound, removed the white exudate, gave him a shot of batryl, and applied a topical solution of batryl and the wound has shrunk greatly. I dont know if his jaw is broken; he is very tender.
I will take a pic today; Im hoping it is just a sex drive induced trauma.....(can't think of a punch line for this one).
Ill let you know how he does.
Thanks for letting me know; the explanation of his horniness makes sense as to the injury.
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
AND:
Subj: Re: Male labyrinth
Date: 1/19/03 12:40:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
Info@diamondreptile.com
To:
THEDIETCOKEGUY@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)
Ok I am glad you have batril If you didn't I would have sent you some. Also Polysporin Works great for that as well.
I am 99.9 percent sure that it had to be caused by him trying to get to the female...He is one Horny Fella...
Has he gotten any yet? If not let him hit something...Its the best medicine
Diamond Reptile Breeders
P.O. BOX 2486
Bushnell, FL 33513
www.diamondreptile.com
Ph. (352)568-3378
Fax(734)448-5003
----- Original Message -----
From:
THEDIETCOKEGUY@aol.com
To:
Info@diamondreptile.com
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Male labyrinth
Mitch;
It certainly could be from him trying to get out; it definately looks so tramatic that I can only assume it could be:
1. a tumor DOUBTFUL
2. an abscess; Doubtful
3. a trauma from a head pusher.
Ive seen nose rubs, head rubs, and can see how this guy could have caught his head in something trying to get out.
The good news is Ive irrigated the wound, removed the white exudate, gave him a shot of batryl, and applied a topical solution of batryl and the wound has shrunk greatly. I dont know if his jaw is broken; he is very tender.
I will take a pic today; Im hoping it is just a sex drive induced trauma.....(can't think of a punch line for this one).
Ill let you know how he does.
Thanks for letting me know; the explanation of his horniness makes sense as to the injury.
Gregory Bowman
Pangea Research
AND
Subj: Re: Male labyrinth
Date: 1/19/03 1:31:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:
Info@diamondreptile.com
To:
THEDIETCOKEGUY@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)
That's the going price. Nothing is as good that's not hard on the kidneys, What dosage are you giving?
The only thing I hate about batril is it burns the skin.
If any new drugs come out that are better I will let you know
Keep me posted on progress.
Thanks
Mitch
Diamond Reptile Breeders
P.O. BOX 2486
Bushnell, FL 33513
www.diamondreptile.com
Ph. (352)568-3378
Fax(734)448-5003
----- Original Message -----
From:
THEDIETCOKEGUY@aol.com
To:
Info@diamondreptile.com
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: Male labyrinth
HAHA if its the best medicine I must be gravely ill.
I will keep an eye on him; I think the shot plus a week of irrigation/antibiotics should heal it up.
I will put him with an albino female; see if hes het for albino. I have some double het babies that I can pair the offspring to.
Question: Batril is damn expensive here; I pay $45 bucks for a 20 ml vial of 22.7mg/ml. There must be a cheaper injectable form for large animals. If I have a burm that gets sick it ends up costing me $100 just for the Batril.
Do you have any resources? or suggestions?
Thanks
Gregory Bowman
Pangea
AND
Subj: Re: Male labyrinth
Date: 1/20/03 11:44:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: THEDIETCOKEGUY
To:
Info@diamondreptile.com
Valleyvet has Batril,
100 mg/ml vs 22.7 mg/ml for what ive been paying $45 bucks for
100 ml vials vs 20 ml vials that Ive been getting
AND $70 bucks if you have your vet fax a prescription to them. SHIPPED.
Do the math; 100mg/ml vs 22.7mg/ml, 100 ml vial vs 20 ml vial, and $70 shipped vs $45; 4.4 times the strength, five times as much=about 22 times as much batril for less than twice the cost.
I dont know what it can be suspended in but I imagine sterile water if need to be diluted. I dont know if its safe to use that strength either. They sell sterile water and saline too if it can be diluted. If its safe to shoot 100mg/ml that would be 1/4 the shot size; 12 ccs becomes 3 ccs. I don't know if that is safe; I would consider diluting it down to to 25 mg/ml. after asking a pharmacist how to dilute it.
For what its worth.
Also check out their price on generic Nolvasan; $13 a bottle is reasonable.
Gregory
Get your facts straight before you make defaming allegations. It serves no purpose but to show your lack of credibility. Call Mitch again and ask if I ASKED anything of him but help with a bone fide problem. Where is his comments about me? Also I did help Mitch in finding Batril at a cheaper price.....does this sound like someone who was dissatisfied with Diamond? I think I made it clear that Mitch was kind enough to be accomidating with the problem. The snake still has some residual injury and I will take a picture of it. But not to share with you; if Mitch wants it I will be more than glad to send it to HIM. As far as Neil-a file of photos are here; including affidavits and evidence. I don't need to tell you that only by discovery are these items turned over only after a lawsuit proceeds.
Since you so desire, Ill take the snakes to the vet tomorrow and get the report. I will also go to Fish and Wildlife to discuss you and then the Postmaster General. Your choice.
I do apologize, my nikon 995 is not working and cannot take a photo of a snake's noise breathing. CLEARLY you have an agenda. An agenda that includes:
1. Committing Postal crime, illegally shipping snakes through the post office.
2. Violating DMA regulations requiring a captive bred cert.
3. Illegal shipping of CITES 1 endangered species.
4. Making knowingly false allegations about the situation then posting your inquiry on the python forum AFTER telling me you know you can ship Pimbura without CITES certs. If you knew the laws; why did you post this?
Posted by neal on February 01, 2003 at 03:27:54:In Reply to: Sri-Lankan Pythons & Interstate sales posted by serpentsden on January 31, 2003 at 20:06:14:Hi Steve,
As far as C.I.T.E.S. and the Endangered Species lists are concerned, Python m. pimbura is not a valid subspecies. Legally, Python m. pimbura is considered to be Python m. molurus. A species can be C.I.T.E.S. appendix I and be freely shipped interstate (example: the Argentine boa). It is the species on the Endangered Species list that cannot be sold interstate without the captive bred wildlife permit. According to the Endangered Species List, the populations of Python molurus from India AND Sri Lanka are considered to be Python molurus molurus. Yes, interstate sales require a captive bred wildlife permit. I'm guessing that alot of "pimbura" are shipped across State lines with no repercussions, but that doesn't mean the law won't be enforced when you least want it to be.:
To make a long story short I'm just going to ask this question. Can Sri-Lankan Pythons (Python m. pimbura) be sold out of state without a USDI Captive Bred Wildlife Permit?
:Thanks,
:Steve
If you did not know the regulations, why did you state in your email sent to me BEFORE you posted this question on Kingsnake.com's python forum:
From your email:
Indian Pythons (Python m. molurus) require that the recipient and not the shipper have a captive bred wildlife permit. Sri-Lankan Pythons (Python m. pimbura) are fine to ship accross state lines. I know this cause I held a USDI Captive Bred Wildlife Permit for many years for Indian Pythons & Radiated Tortoises.
AND
If you are unhappy with the animals, I will give you 10 days or less to return them for a full refund plus the cost to return them. If you need heat packs to make a return I'll be glad to send you some.
BTW ive purchased tens of thousand dollars worth of snakes in the last few months from various people. By contacting Mitch and telling him not the facts but your own spin has jeopardized my future business dealings with him and is considered defamation with willful intent.
Also; if you would like to tell them you shipped Pimbura across state lines via the post office without CITES permits; im sure they may give you some advice.
I will wait to hear from you as to what you want to do about this before you dig yourself deeper.
Sincerely
Gregory Bowman
(818) 391-4553
2/2/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Lacey Act Amendments of 1981 (P.L. 97-79, 95 Stat. 1073, 16 U.S.C. 3371-3378, approved November 16, 1981, and as amended by P.L. 100-653, 102 Stat. 3825, approved November 14, 1988, and P.L. 98-327, 98 Stat. 271, approved June 25, 1984) These amendments repealed the Black Bass Act and sections 43 and 44 of the Lacey Act of 1900 (18 U.S.C. 43- 44), replacing them with a single comprehensive statute. Under this law, it is unlawful to import, export, sell, acquire, or purchase fish, wildlife or plants taken, possessed, transported, or sold: 1) in violation of U.S. or Indian law, or 2) in interstate or foreign commerce involving any fish, wildlife, or plants taken possessed or sold in violation of State or foreign law. The law covers all fish and wildlife and their parts or products, and plants protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species and those protected by State law. Commercial guiding and outfitting are considered to be a sale under the provisions of the Act. Felony criminal sanctions are provided for violations involving imports or exports, or violations of a commercial nature in which the value of the wildlife is in excess of $350. A misdemeanor violation was established, with a fine of up to $10,000 and imprisonment of up to 1 year, or both. Civil penalties up to $10,000 were provided. However, the Criminal Fines Improvement Act of 1987 increased the fines under the Lacey Act for misdemeanors to a maximum of $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for organizations. Maximum fines for felonies were increased to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations. Rewards are authorized for information leading to arrests, criminal convictions, civil penalties, or the forfeitures of property, and for payment of costs of temporary care for fish, wildlife, or plants regarding a civil or criminal proceeding. Strict liability is established for forfeiture of illegal fish, wildlife or plants, and marking requirements for shipments of fish and wildlife must conform to modern commercial practices. Those enforcing the Act are authorized to carry firearms, make qualified warrantless arrests for felony and misdemeanor violations of any law of the U.S. when enforcing the Act, search and seize under Attorney General guidelines, issue subpoenas and warrants, inspect vessels, vehicles, aircraft, packages, crates, and containers on arrival in the United States from outside the United States or prior to departure from the United States. Amendments to the humane shipment provisions of Title 18 required the Secretary of the Interior to issue regulations governing such activity. As amended May 24, 1949, 18 U.S.C. 42 (63 Stat. 89, September 2, 1960; P.L. 86-702; 74 Stat. 753; and November 29, 1990, P.L. 101-646, 104 Stat. 4772) prohibits importation of wild vertebrates and other animals listed in the Act or declared by the Secretary of the Interior to be injurious to man or agriculture, wildlife resources, or otherwise, except under certain circumstances and pursuant to regulations.
2/2/03 To: Gregory Bowman from Steve Markevich
Gregory,
I have no doubt that Sri-Lankan Pythons can be shipped across state lines my posting was simply a question and the answers recieved I wasn't going to argue.
Attached is a current listing of all the listed Threatened and Endangered species that are federally protected. See page 19 and you will see Python m. pimbura is not listed as being protected.
Steve Markevich
Serpent's Den
Carbon Plaza Mall
Route 443
Lehighton, PA 18235
Tel. (570) 386-8122
E_MAIL
reptiles@serpentsden.com
WEBSITE
www.serpentsden.com
2/2/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve,
I have nothing left to say to you; I just got off the phone with Mitch, Jay, and others who you have contacted about me; funny you told them I was trying to burn you but never explained what the truth behind your call/email was. I have nothing to hide so dig away, its your grave.
You have defamed me, jeopardized my future business with good people and are trying to cover up your illegal activity with smearing my name now.
I have been more than reasonable with you and tried to solve this illegal situation you have placed me in.
I will do what I have to do now.
Sincerely
Gregory Bowman
2/3/03 To: Steve Markevich from Gregory Bowman
Steve
The document you sent me is a reprint current as of 1999. Need I remind you the current year is 2003.
Seems you are in a world of hurt right now due to your own deception and lies.
I always ask you, Steve, what do you want to do about this?
Gregory Bowman
Thanks for taking the time of reading all of the above.
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