Importing WC vs CB

The post about getting an importers liscense made me think of this. Is buying a CB animal from another country treated the same as importing WC animals. Occasionally I see ads from Germany or some other foreign country and I was wondering how buying from them is different from buying here in the US.

Steve Schindler

Steve, it depends on what you mean. If you mean do you have to call it imported to market it, well then the industry standard would be no. Think about all the C.B. ball pythons that will be hitting the market over the next few weeks. There are captive born on farms in Africa and then shipped over.

If you mean do they have to go through the same importation process, I would think so.

Brian

I was refering to the latter. I know how all the imported stuff is labeled as CB and all. For example, I was wondering if I were to inquire about purchasing some CB dart frogs from someone in Germany what procedures would have to be followed to get them to me, and would they be the same as if I was importing wc specimens from Columbia.

I don't deal with the farmed imports but if I did they would be labled as just that "farmed imports" not as CB, because to many people CB still means Captive Bred, and not simply Captive Born.

Steve Schindler

That brings up an interesting question. How much should one shoot themself in the foot (so to speak). I tell people what c.b. ball python actually means (farmed then shipped) but, the industry standard is just calling them c.b. Many people know to avoid imported ball pythons, so if I were to actually label the tank or the deli cup farmed imported when everyone else is just going w/ c.b. I'd probably be costing myself business. So, do you go with what standard the indusrty puts out, or try and make your own?

Steve,

I am not sure of the laws in Colombia regarding export and import of WC dart frogs, but you are probably going to have to jump through similar hoops if you wanted to procure CB dart frogs from a German breeder.

You will have to get CITES paperwork done and also apply and pay for a USFWS import permit. USFWS will come out and inspect you, you pay their fee and jump through a few more hoops(sorry, can't remember all the loopholes and rigmarole involved offhand), then you are awarded your import permit. You have to renew your license yearly if I remember correctly, and the fee is not TOO astronomical. Now, the way I understand it, the person you are buying from is the one that must supply and fill out all of the CITES paperwork when they ship to you, but I might be wrong. Also, there may be specific state paperwork as well depending on the laws where you live, so you may want to check all that out as well. Also, alot of it can depend on the particular species you wish to bring into the country, and the levels of protection it is afforded by CITES and/or the ESA.

Now, when it comes to what you call your CB dart frogs from Germany, label them as just that, CB dart frogs from so and so breeder in Germany. You can call them imports if you wish, as that is what they are, but calling them CB is not wrong either, as they are that as well.

Brian, I understand you predicament. All I could hope is that when a seller offering these imports they are truthfull about their origins. It sounds like you are. The reason I choose not to deal with them is because I can never be sure if they are in fact treated properly from the start. I have considered buying some in the past from someone that I do trust to treat them right, but I decided not to when my own pair mated and I got my own CBB. It looks like I am in the same boat again this year. The only problem is I will have to wait several months longer to have any for sale.

Rob, Thanks for the input. In fact, I was simply more curious than seriously considering it but I kind of wanted to find out in advance what I might be up against just in case I saw some breeder in another country offering something I felt I couldn't live without. At this point I probably wouldn't bother. I figured someone who imports regularly might be able to shed a little light on the subject.

Steve Schindler

Don't know if this helps but.....There are some farms producing true"Captive Born" CITES specimens. Now don't get me wrong, there are some illegitimate facilities. Many years ago Colombia was shipping out iguanas and boids under the guise of "Farm Raised", "CITES approved. When the CITES commision visited the facilities, many were simply collection points for wild caught babies. Others were collection facilities with cages which housed gravid females waiting to give birth. A very few were actual breeding facilities. Many were shut down. Knowing the "Breeder", you are dealing with helps. Also, some species can be legally imported into other countries but not to the U.S. directly. Many dealers in Holland or Europe in general can get re-export CITES for these. It's a tough issue as to the designation. Know who you are buying from? Also, the import/export permit is not difficult to obtain. If you need info just call or e-mail me. Last but not least! I recently was sent a package. The sender was overseas and had asked if he could send a sample. Since they were CITES species and since I was already applying for his CITES order, I ASSUMED that he would send through legal channels. He didn't! FED/Express direct to me! BAD!!!(You can receive through Fed/Express but they have to go through customs and F&W. Again I figured this was going to be the case.) I even have e-mails telling him that they must be legal.(In all manners, shipping, docs. etc.) Caused me quite a problem. It wasn't deliberate but F&W doesn't look at it that way. Therefore, don't make any mistakes about being very clear with who you deal with. Tell them that you want copies of the approved export CITES to you and in your name. Fax this to Fish & Wildlife. Get WRITTEN approval from them. Then go through with the CITES deal. Sounds like a lot of work but, better safe than sorry. Thanks Ray Goushaw Herpetological Breeding Research 772-468-0228 hrpbrdrsch@netzero.net