BD's and no UV-B

Originally Posted by JButera

Thanks, but it doesn't answer my question. If a uv-b bulb's only purpose is to allow the animal to manufacture VitD3, how is it different then just giving them D3 in their diet? Either way it winds up in their bloodstream. Just wanted to know if there was any difference in quality or usefulness and if uv-b bulbs were even necessary when D3 is supplemented via diet.

That is the exact question I asked, too. It's a good question, was then, is now.

Originally Posted by Lucille

That is the exact question I asked, too. It's a good question, was then, is now.

Thanks Lucille, I've been struggling to find a solid answer for over a decade.

I was always told that they need the UVB to PROCESS the D3.

I have seen it first hand when people supplement the D3, and don't have a UVB, the animal winds up with MBD. It's not something I would want to risk.

My dragon gets calcium with D3 and he has a UVB bulb. On top of that, during the summer he gets to go outside on his lead and hang out in the sun. (Yes we're always around him when he's out there.) Plus he goes camping with us and hangs out in the sun the whole time we're there, because we don't take his UVB light or his heat lamp when we go camping. Just a simple plastic tub for him to be able to eat in and sleep in. Other than that he hangs out on his lead with us.

Just from what I was taught when I first started keeping beardies, I wouldn't risk it.

Originally Posted by Mistyck

I wouldn't risk it.

I think this is important. There isn't enough research IMHO, and I think best practice is to use both methods for critters in our care until there is.

Originally Posted by Mistyck

I was always told that they need the UVB to PROCESS the D3.

I have seen it first hand when people supplement the D3, and don't have a UVB, the animal winds up with MBD. It's not something I would want to risk.

My dragon gets calcium with D3 and he has a UVB bulb. On top of that, during the summer he gets to go outside on his lead and hang out in the sun. (Yes we're always around him when he's out there.) Plus he goes camping with us and hangs out in the sun the whole time we're there, because we don't take his UVB light or his heat lamp when we go camping. Just a simple plastic tub for him to be able to eat in and sleep in. Other than that he hangs out on his lead with us.

Just from what I was taught when I first started keeping beardies, I wouldn't risk it.

I wouldn't advise anyone to risk it either but imo there's more to this subject than what's currently know. As far as 'processing' VitD3 idk, seems more accurate to say VitD3 it produced when an animal is exposed to uv-b rays, then the synthesized D3 is processed in the liver and kidneys. Btw, sounds like your BD has a better life than me.

I am hesitant to make this post at all.

This topic is still steeped in vagary for a number of species. I have had some (a good bit) of success with zero UVB (from hatching to adulthood in some cases) and using dietary D3 to compensate, but I cannot give specific recommendations because there are not enough data collected (like determining serum levels during peak UVB exposure for the annual season for a given species and then determining how much orally administered D3 might be needed to reach those serum levels on average). It is riskier for some people to play around with this than others and animals could easily experience detriments unless one is fortunate enough to get it "correct-ish" early on in the learning process. For myself, this currently is about as much "art" as science and I would not feel comfortable even saying what I would do in practice absent testing simply because I know somebody will mess it up (and therefore harm their animals). I do know people have tried to make approximations after seeing some of my experimental animals and were not as successful. Different artists will produce different works of art until this becomes a paint-by-numbers scenario and when the artwork is an animal's life, that needs to be given weighted ethical consideration. I do not consider myself a particularly talented artist here.

A lipid solution is usually better for absorption than something in a powder for what should be obvious reasons. There may be other vitamins (like the K complex) one would want to involve in experiments, as the mineralization process is multifactorial. Using a mineral supplement that is more "spread" and takes more than calcium into account is something I would consider prudent. Mistakes are rarely readily apparent until a serious problem has already begun to manifest.

Part of the issue is the ego. Most people imagine themselves better looking than average, better drivers than average, more intelligent than average, and good judges of people. Most people are incorrect. The same ego-driven distortions can affect a person's ability to judge whether or not they can successfully manage the UVB-less care and development of an animal of a species known for absolutely relying on UVB exposure. Since I do not have any really deep shortcuts to being introspective for accurate (or at least conservative) self-appraisal, I would say the best step would be to start from the position of automatically doubting one's capability.

Good luck to anyone who tries and greater luck to their animals.

After reading some older threads on other sites and a pm I received the other day I'm confident BD's don't need uvb bulbs. IMO It's a more of a fail-safe to make up for an unbalanced diet.