Underground Reptiles Stay away!!

Moderators what is the appropriate thing for me to do here. post the emails in this thread or start a completely new one?
please advise

Our ads are not basic text as can be seen. From the time it takes to take pictures, edit, collect data and input info it takes two people about two hours per animal.

There is being born, being born again, and being born yesterday.

I do not find myself fitting all three of those categories

That is an incredible degree of inefficiency. If that is not extreme hyperbole (and I am of the belief that it is indeed an exaggerated claim if I am to use generous wording here), you guys could do well by saving money via a lean six sigma project or another process waste reduction exercise.

I was not even asked for pictures of the male. I sent that on my own to show he in fact did have a bulge. I was also no asked for a picture of the other male which I can take pictures and show I do have 2 males.
It does not matter if it was weeks after I contacted you, it was sexed improperly. If an animal is sold as a female and turns male it is the seller's fault.
I should not have to make another purchase just for you to correct your mistake.

Ryan, when I said that underground is all about the money I don't think you understand exactly what I meant. Obviously everyone that breeds or buys and sells reptiles wants money. Me included. I don't deny it myself. But what I meant by that statement was the money takes priority over the health and lives of the animals and as long as the animal makes it to the customer alive and stays alive for I'm guessing 24 hours that means underground reptiles is off the hook. You guys are extremely protected under your TOS.
Ryan B. This is not a personal attack on you. I fully understand that you are an employee and your hands are tied.
I think that your owner should stop justifying all of the negative situations and stop hiding behind your TOS. Maybe you should re evaluate your system and just try to honestly change some things.

Also as you say "Almost all companies I have checked require notification of an issue within 24 hours, some less."

That is true.....when it comes in sick or dead! Not sexed improperly as this gecko was

Originally Posted by craigwyatt

Ryan, when I said that underground is all about the money I don't think you understand exactly what I meant. Obviously everyone that breeds or buys and sells reptiles wants money. Me included. I don't deny it myself. But what I meant by that statement was the money takes priority over the health and lives of the animals and as long as the animal makes it to the customer alive and stays alive for I'm guessing 24 hours that means underground reptiles is off the hook. You guys are extremely protected under your TOS.
Ryan B. This is not a personal attack on you. I fully understand that you are an employee and your hands are tied.
I think that your owner should stop justifying all of the negative situations and stop hiding behind your TOS. Maybe you should re evaluate your system and just try to honestly change some things.

His hands are not tied he is part and participant in the con!!!!!!!! He is the good cop part of the good cop bad cop equation. Don't be fooled. I mean seriously Ryan tries to discredit me? Let us tally up the bad guy posts...
me ZERO! Underground? i have no idea i lost count. But there have been so many bad guy posts about underground reptiles that they should be getting a lifetime achievement award!

Since you never asked for pictures of the second male, here you go. Pictures of the male I bought and the "Female" with a huge bulge.





This is the picture I sent Underground reptiles to show it was a male. They never asked for this picture but they were shown proof anyway.

Originally Posted by mfasano

Also as you say "Almost all companies I have checked require notification of an issue within 24 hours, some less."

That is true.....when it comes in sick or dead! Not sexed improperly as this gecko was

Some people (such as myself) have a time frame in our TOS regarding mis-sexed animals. So as not to take this off topic, here's a prior discussion about this topic if you're interested: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=205313

Not that it's the best solution, but at least they did offer a credit. It sounds like that is all they will offer.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by RyanB

I was the one who told the customer that after 3 WEEKS without any notification and proper documentation I could not replace the animal and cover shipping. I'm hoping regardless of how you personally feel about this situation that one would consider things objectively. The buyer purchased the geckos and waited 3 WEEKS to notify us of any issues.

Would you have covered shipping if you were immediately notified or is this an instance where you would not follow underground's terms regarding shipping?

Originally Posted by http://undergroundreptiles.com/terms-and-conditions/

* We cannot be held responsible for shipping charges incurred for upholding our guarantee; they are the responsibility of you, the buyer. We do not offer credits or refunds on shipping for replacement animals.

Originally Posted by RyanB

Even if she had sent everything I needed, it is still being overlooked that she waited 3 weeks. Melanie said she has kept geckos for 10 years and panthers for 3. How can I verify at this point that the animal was even the one I sent, especially since she claims to have other geckos.

I see on your TOS that you don't guarantee sex unless otherwise specified. Can you point to me in your TOS where there is a time limit attached to this guarantee when given? I only see that you require immediate notification with issues involving live arrival/health and a picture emailed within the hour; I'm not seeing any time restraints on a sex guarantees.

Originally Posted by RyanB

Since others have also brought up the other thread we have from last week please allow me to explain that since the decision was also mine. Rich purchased animals, under no manipulation, and fully aware of our terms of service which clearly states no refunds on orders or deposits. Though some may assume no work could happen in a 2-3 hour expanse of time, I will explain how wrong that assumption is. When an order is placed and animals are marked sold, and several were, notifications are automatically sent through an inventory system we have to remove ads. We post ads on our website, fauna, kingsnake, and the reptile report. So in essence one animal is posted 4 times. Our ads are not basic text as can be seen. From the time it takes to take pictures, edit, collect data and input info it takes two people about two hours per animal. It only takes about 5-10 minutes to locate and delete these ads. With Rich's order several ads were deleted. I also sent an email to remove the animals from our wholesale list.

I was under the impression from viewing underground's postings that most of the pictures used were stock photos. Even if the pictures in the ads were individually taken are you saying this person is responsible for time spent creating these ads? How are they responsible for all the "hours" of work put into posting the ads in the first place? The effort of retrieving and reposting a deleted ad is laughable. Stick with rigidly following your TOS no matter what. Much better argument - if infinitely lame in these situations. I would like to know how much less work, on underground's part, would have allowed you not to stick the 15% restocking fee on this customer.

Ok Ryan and Rian. On monday morning i will be posting a full disclosure on what you have referenced today regarding your backing out of an order hand delivered to you to Daytona from Kansas City. I have all emails and they will be painting a slightly different picture than your version. I think you may have a few facts wrong haha. I am not going to spend my family weekend battling on the BOI but i assure you it will come monday. I also will be posting some photos of my cell phone with the multiple incoming calls today from MR. Gittman and we can discuss the threats and your attempts at intimidation(which don't work on me) See you talk about me doing all these things to you from behind a keyboard but in fact you are lying about the events. However you guys mainly the owner like to make threats to people from behind a phone from florida when i live in California. So again i will point out your hypocrisy. I do not tolerate threats and i am not intimidated by anyone. So you can take that up in person with me sometimes where there are no keyboards or phonse for either of us to hide behind. Until that time please stop acting like a high school kid and save your threat for me in person. I am easy to find at reptile shows worth going to like the reptile super show.

You guys are con artists,full of crap and the lowest of the low in this hobby/industry. Have a good weekend.