Inbreeding

Will you be honest with the buyers that these animals are kinda like a dragon but not really. That the level of care (which most people already DO NOT do) will be a bit different. Oh and by the way, don't forget to take your list of precautions.


Thats kinda like being BLIND and not having a suppot system around like a good healthy and trained seeing eye dog, But hey it listens sometimes but not all the time

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If I replace silkback in the below quote and put in any mutation associated with snakes, geckos or any other animal, it would be called responsible out-crossing.

Sadly Dennis, they would rather ignore the "responsible out-crossing" part.

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If I replace silkback in the below quote and put in any mutation associated with snakes, geckos or any other animal, it would be called responsible out-crossing.

So, to set the record straight...you are saying that it's ok to mate a brother to his sister if it will produce a trait for you? And that is called responsible out-crossing?

but why do all that??just for money? its senseless and should be considered animal cruelty.who are we to mess with them?

That is a ridiculous statement. Animal cruelty? You can't be serious! As far as inbreeding goes, you are kidding yourselves if you think most of the dragons in the U.S. are not related in some way. When was the last time wild caught dragons were imported here from Australia? And speaking of wild dragons, do you not realize that bearded dragons (and other wild animals) inbreed in the wild all the time? These animals do not avoid breeding with others that are closely related to them.

NOW, with all that being said, I am a strong believer in outcrossing reptilian bloodlines. It is always a good idea to bring in animals that are not closely related to whatever bloodline you are working with to outcross your lines. It is commonplace for herpetoculturists to inbreed for 2-3 generations in order to reproduce a specific recessive or dominant trait, sometimes even a line bred trait. Responsible breeders will then outcross the morph animals to strenthen the line.

With the limited gene pools we have to begin with (I am speaking mainly of bearded dragons and leopard geckos), I sometimes wonder if in a lot of cases we are only making ourselves feel better by pretending that we are breeding "completely unrelated" animals together. You have to admit that most of these animals descend from very few bloodlines in the first place, and they have been inbred and mass produced for years. I think it is really wrong of some here to cast stones at certain breeders over and over and over again for what those people perceive as "wrong". My $.02.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

So, to set the record straight...you are saying that it's ok to mate a brother to his sister if it will produce a trait for you? And that is called responsible out-crossing?

How do you think I got my first snow corn? Out-crossing comes after. Breeding 101.

Where do you think almost every single ball and Leo morph comes from?
Just how do you think they prove out their morphs?


I've started to post a few times and retracted because it wasn't very polite.

So what are you saying? I'm still trying to find out what groups your talking about?

Originally Posted by whiskersmom
I've been writing some different agencies about this and hopefully this can be stopped. I realize that the U.S. don't really have alot of regulations when it comes to reptiles, especially the care and ethical threatment of them but there may be something. Too bad we weren't more like Austria. In Austria - you, your animals and their enclosures are inspected yearly. If something isn't right, you are fined and then if still not fixed, the bearded dragon is removed from your care. I can't see a place like that allowing something like this.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom
I no way said anything like that. The word "agencies" doesn't only apply to governmental agencies. And where the heck did you get the word BAN from?

Just for the record, You sound like a PETA nut job.

As far as inbreeding goes, you are kidding yourselves if you think most of the dragons in the U.S. are not related in some way.

No, we already know that. What we aren't agreeing with is to take those same practices to not create a larger gene pool or to do it for color but they are doing it to create a dragon that hasn't any scales. That will require different care then our beardies. Special precautions. This isn't the same. We may have messed up by breeding related dragons to gain more color but to take it a few steps further to create a different animal is another thing.

None of us are fooling ourselves here, but we don't see the necessity in creating this mutation. And we're difinitely not naive....the reason for this creation has something to do with money. When you're talking about an animal...changing it for capital gain....well, in my eyes you can't get any lower.

Originally Posted by KelliH

That is a ridiculous statement. Animal cruelty? You can't be serious! As far as inbreeding goes, you are kidding yourselves if you think most of the dragons in the U.S. are not related in some way. When was the last time wild caught dragons were imported here from Australia? And speaking of wild dragons, do you not realize that bearded dragons (and other wild animals) inbreed in the wild all the time? These animals do not avoid breeding with others that are closely related to them.

NOW, with all that being said, I am a strong believer in outcrossing reptilian bloodlines. It is always a good idea to bring in animals that are not closely related to whatever bloodline you are working with to outcross your lines. It is commonplace for herpetoculturists to inbreed for 2-3 generations in order to reproduce a specific recessive or dominant trait, sometimes even a line bred trait. Responsible breeders will then outcross the morph animals to strenthen the line.

With the limited gene pools we have to begin with (I am speaking mainly of bearded dragons and leopard geckos), I sometimes wonder if in a lot of cases we are only making ourselves feel better by pretending that we are breeding "completely unrelated" animals together. You have to admit that most of these animals descend from very few bloodlines in the first place, and they have been inbred and mass produced for years. I think it is really wrong of some here to cast stones at certain breeders over and over and over again for what those people perceive as "wrong". My $.02.

1) CAN you find me a responsible breeder around here? 2)yes,there are a limited amount of unrelated beardies BUT why inbreed in close relation on purpose?

Originally Posted by mikey

Sadly Dennis, they would rather ignore the "responsible out-crossing" part.

we cant ignore something that ISN'T there

Originally Posted by puppytoes72

yes,there are a limited amount of unrelated beardies BUT why inbreed in close relation on purpose?

Originally Posted by mikey

plz make sure you bang your head hard enough ok??