OMG! I hatched a two-headed dragon!

Originally Posted by RJK890

There are two sides to this coin.
The issue's of two headed dragons, twins sharing eggs, Hybrids, etc. are kinda moral issue's and vary depending on each individuals perception of right and wrong.

Very true. I know where my moral standards lie, and they may or may not be in line with what everyone else here considers right or wrong. I am excited and intrigued by genetics, including genetic variations. I see absolutely nothing wrong with choosing not to euthenize a two-headed bearded dragon AS LONG AS it is not in pain or struggling to live. I don't know...this little guy may not make it 3 more hours for all know...and at that point it is a non-issue. Do I plan to keep breeding this female that produced him? You bet your boots, I do. She may produce a few twins now and then, but she is a heck of a breeder, and makes big, healthy babies. Now if she produced clutches with a number of deformed, unhealthy freaks, then I would not breed her. That would be detrimental obviously.

This is the same argument that comes up time and time again regarding all types of genetic morphs or variations. I DON'T see a problem with the artistic manipulation of genes as long as the animal does not have a poor quality of life. Period. What constitutes a GOOD quality of life? Animals are happy if they are pain-free, have food to fill their bellies, a warm place to live, and someone to clean up their crap. Animals are not philosophical about happiness like people are. They don't sit around thinking, "Gee, I wonder if Fluffy over there thinks I look weird. Gee, I'm depressed now. Well, there goes my reason to live..." As long as they have their basic needs met...I don't see the problem. So there. I've drawn the line in the sand. You can hate me or agree with me...I don't really care, but you should respect the fact that I have to balls to be upfront about how I feel.

Jamie

Originally Posted by RJK890

There are two sides to this coin.
The issue's of two headed dragons, twins sharing eggs, Hybrids, etc. are kinda moral issue's and vary depending on each individuals perception of right and wrong.

I can see why someone would want to double the odds of getting an Axanthic Bumblebee in a clutch, or producing a Pied LA by having twins in every egg. I can also see why others would be disgusted that the breeder would intentionally produce smaller offspring that may have more of a chance at having health issues and less of a chance at survival to increase their profit margin, or in lieu of patience in producing cutting edge morphs.

I can see why someone would want to cross Burms x Retic, Bloods x BP's, CRB x BRB/Dumerils, etc. to transfer desired traits of color, pattern, size, etc. I can also see why others would be concerned about the impure bloodlines from these projects getting into the majority of, or all of the pure collections of every line over time.

I can see why someone would want to produce a healthy and thriving double headed dragon, with a good quality of life. Even if it did not have much of a resale value, it would make an odd display animal, or even just a cool pet. I can also see why others would be outraged that the breeder would continue to breed an animal that consistently, if not genetically, produced deformed offspring that needed to be euthanized, simply trying to prove out the "twin gene."

Someplace hath just frozen over....I actually, for the most part....agree with Robert.

However, it's statements like this that tend to bother me....

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

she is a heck of a breeder, and makes big, healthy babies.

A "heck of a breeder"? "Big, healthy babies"? You already told us that last year, she produced multiple babies that didn't survive.

I don't know, to me there's a big difference between breeding for color variations, and for things that may be detrimental to the health of the animals.

That said.....I wouldn't freeze the baby as long as he's healthy and not in any discomfort.....but I wouldn't continue to breed his mom either, just to satisfy my curiousity or find a way to make more babies and mo' money.

Congrats!

I hatched out a two headed blood red corn snake a couple of years ago. Sold it to someone who sold it to someone else. As far as I know, it's doing just fine now. If your dragon survives and is healthy, then it was meant to be.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

However, it's statements like this that tend to bother me....



A "heck of a breeder"? "Big, healthy babies"? You already told us that last year, she produced multiple babies that didn't survive.

She produced 4 clutches last year. Of those 75 or so eggs, we lost 3 or 4 in the egg due to the twinning. I just don't think the odds are worth retiring her as a breeder.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

However, it's statements like this that tend to bother me....



A "heck of a breeder"? "Big, healthy babies"? You already told us that last year, she produced multiple babies that didn't survive.

She produced 4 clutches last year. Of those 75 or so eggs, we lost 3 or 4 in the egg due to the twinning. I just don't think the odds are worth retiring her as a breeder. I never stated that we lost multiple babies...

Sorry, I tried to edit and add one more sentence, and I goofed it up, lol.

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

She produced a few two-heads for me last year, but they died in the egg.

Multiple: having or involving or consisting of more than one part or entity or individual

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Multiple: having or involving or consisting of more than one part or entity or individual

Picky, picky.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

or find a way to make more babies and mo' money.

Because this issue is brought up again and again in so many posts...

This statement annoys me. Mo' money. Ha. Since when did wanting to make money become such a horrible thing? I LOVE my job...breeding reptiles, that is. I am less than two weeks away from quitting my other job and focusing entirely on the breeding business. I've worked my ass off basically working two full time jobs for over three years to get to this point. Of course I want to make money! I want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life doing exactly what I want to do and being able to support my family in the process. Since when did it become the moral high road to not make money at your job? Good grief! And does this mean that I have no values, or that I care any less about the animals? Of course not! That is ridiculous!

Sorry to go off on a rant, but this forum is filled with way to many "moralistic" bullies, and I'm sick of it.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

Sorry to go off on a rant, but this forum is filled with way to many "moralistic" bullies, and I'm sick of it.

Jamie

There are many other sites available if you are not happy with the way things are run here.

Otherwise, this comment is entirely unnecessary, and uncalled for. Fauna is, how Fauna is. Dont like it, Find somewhere else to post where everyone agrees and feels the same way about everything, and everything is happy and merry and covered in chocolate goodness.

Originally Posted by Mooing Tricycle

There are many other sites available if you are not happy with the way things are run here.

But...then who would be around to annoy you? That would be no fun...