We stated :
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To the bearded dragon community, we believe this is where we all need to step up to the plate. Those who have had positive results through EM testing - please consider additional PCR testing with Dr. Jacobson - You have the fecal samples that are needed to further any research and possibly identify or discount additional strains of the adenovirus in the North American bearded dragon population. Identification is paramount - it is the first of many steps needed.
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Note to interested parties - Private correspondence was initiated by Cheri in response to our last post.
Our opinion has not changed from the original posts we have made. There are too many unanswered questions, lop-sided facts (that are presented to only support certain points of view) and hearsay to make any informed decisions at all. Oh, and don’t forget the partial mis-quotes and snide comments.
Lets start by addressing Cheri’s latest mis-quote :
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Originally Posted by Dachiu
I have a problem with people who tend to present only the information that supports their opinions or beliefs. Surely, we can make the time to address this publicly…
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Taking any post in context when offering a quote would be an excellent starting point for intelligent public conversation.
Back to your question - Sorry, but we would not post a name publicly any faster than you would offer the names of people with positive confidential test results. Suffice to say, Pete did not only acquire his initial stock from overseas - but also purchased dragons from various sources within the USA.
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Originally Posted by CheriS
It showed up in the US heavily in bearded dragons that I know of, that were imported from Germany in 1997-2000 to Florida, in the german giants and redflame lines, later the orange glow line and those were all crossed together.
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The adenovirus was identified and documented in vitticeps in 1996 by Dr. Jacobson - then found “heavily” in the captive population shortly thereafter? Finding that odd we asked a few pointed questions of the appropriate people and discovered that the trail of information leads back to the early 90’s, if not late 80’s… Before Pete.
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Originally Posted by CheriS
…in fact the first generations of RedFlames were some of the most heartiest and largest dragons ever produced as are many of the GG lines.
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Really? Did you observe this by first-hand experience Cheri? Did you purchase a 1st generation Red Flame from Pete?
We did… several actually, and “in fact” from our experience the above statement could not be further from the truth.
Everything presented publicly so far has been opinions and nothing more. Ok, one opinion was of a valued member of the reptile research community was given - BUT those opinions are being presented to the community by people other than themselves. Cheri, did you edit, delete parts or choose not to mention additional information provided in consecutive correspondences with Dr. Jacobson?
I feel like I’m watching a game of “Pong”. The information just bounces from one side to another. Research has NOT been done on the adenovirus in bearded dragons. The best thing we can do is to test and re-test and try to gather as much information as possible. That is what we have told others to do and that is exactly what we are doing. Do not form an opinion on what others say (including us) but rather do your own research and your own testing.
As for the hush aspect of this whole situation - Cheri, YOU are the one that doesn’t want the broad spectrum of information available. The only facts that are acceptable are the ones that support your point of view - and the minute something goes awry from your path, you want to start pointing a finger. The minute people start asking intelligent questions - up pops a sob story.
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Originally Posted by CheriS
The whole thing is there are some very angry breeders now that people are testing and questioning.... NOW WHY WOULD THEY BE?
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Who is angry? Certainly not us. In fact, we are happy that more people are testing their animals. Quite frankly, the more testing that is done… the more things seem to differ from what we have been told is so. The more people who present information, the better.
Shall we begin a list of misinformation that has been presented? Or perhaps a few questions that question/contradict this misinformation? Or maybe it would be better to just move on and address some of the current issues and hypothesis.
Fact - The person who Cheri points her finger at is NOT the person responsible for introducing adenovirus to the USA.
Fact - Adenovirus is NOT the reason said person is no longer actively breeding dragons… just a sad assumption to support a theory.
Fact - Josh worked for SDR and was hands-on with their Trans project. Cheri, you really should “check it further” with a simple phone call to Bob before making unfounded assumptions. (Considering the fact that Paul lived in New Jersey - He must have very long arms.)
Fact - I’m confused. Exactly where in any of Paul’s posted comments on the health of the Translucent dragons was adenovirus mentioned?
Fact - There are many breeders listed on the Bearded Dragon Breeders Network that have recently tested positive for adenovirus. Chances are that their animals were positive previous to testing and yet, oddly enough, are highly recommended for the health of their animals.
Fact - There are several reports of no mortality rates in clutches of adenovirus positive hatchlings. How can this be based on the information provided? What changed?
Fact - The viral outbreaks in animals that died in most cases, had other issues in addition to adenovirus. Shhh… that’s a secret.
Fact - There have been a couple reports of adenovirus positive babies - produced by adults who tested negative.
Wendy stated :
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I did ask Dr. Wentz regarding the accuracy of the EM test he developed and he said that the carriers tested positive each time and the negatives tested clear.
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Fact - We have animals in our possession that previously tested positive for adenovirus - Curious thing is - so did a sibling 2-3 months ago who has since then returned multiple negative results. Once positive, always positive? Obviously not in this case.
Glaring Fact - The one thing with any discernable consistent pattern is the inconsistency of the information provided by certain parties.