Beware Of Steve Smith Of Southern States Exotics!!

Sheesh....

This is another one to watch out for. All of a sudden, once we posted on Corey how he owes us money and he won't pay, we get an email from Steve Smith at Southern States Exotics (who also was supposed to pay us money and has been avoiding us for the last month), that HE ALSO has hundreds of dollars worth of dead animals that he received and will not pay us what he owes us.

I am posting copies of the invoice, his emails, etc so we can get this out in the open the first time, so bear with me if this is quite lenghty.

They picked out over $1800 worth of animals in June. Anne ok'd the shipment and out it went. She paypaled us $500 as a down deposit and was to send the remainder over the next few weeks.

I ALSO DID A WEBSITE FOR THEM WHICH THEY STILL OWE ME $125 FOR!!! They do not want to pay the August hosting bill of $19.99 either, so I had to suspend their account.

It's a shame how people need all the help in the world to start their business, and we're the suckers (although it's a learning experience) that get screwed.

Anne would call constantly asking questions, how to get started, how to help with peopblems, how to set up tanks, etc.

They wanted to get some inventory for their newly opened "business", so we worked out to have $1000 down and the rest on credit to be paid in the following weeks. They only had $500 available (which was paid after they received all the animals) so we assumed they would stick to their word of payments.

All of a sudden when we touch base with them to find out when we can expect to see money, we start getting every excuse from Anne and never hear from Steve. Then we get an email on 8/4 finally:

This is Anne....we're not avoiding you, just have been very busy. I started work last week at the hospital and between the two of us, it seems like there is always something going on. I just got in from work and am going to take some medicine and go to bed. I will call ya'll tomorrow when I'm feeling better........

Not on ly that, the only email we received from them from 6/25 through 8/4 was about a customer we had referred to them and they needed his contact info. But nothing about money.

Then we keep calling and calling, and get no response. We finally get an email from Steve 8/15:

Sal/Allison,

You are going to have to give me some time to pay the remaining balance with you. We also need to get the balance corrected to show the loss that you are responsible for (7 days). There has a been a major problem with the animals. all were severely malnoursished and vitamin deficient. I do not know if you just think that I am stupid and wouldn't know or what, but they were in sad shape. The ones that haven't died are being slowly nursed back to health so that they can be sold. I am not blaming you for this like everyone else does. I think I know where the problem lies (US Global Exotics) and if this is the case you should really consider changing your wholesaler. They are killing your business. Out of 25 ball pythons and 10 Burmese pythons (all of which came from you via US Global Exotics) exactly none have survived. I do not want to call it IBD, and you don't want it either, because that would kill both of our personal and business snakes. I really don't want to lose any of mine. Thank goodness I had enough sense to keep the two apart. Anyway my point is this, I will pay you when I get the money. Anne gets her school loans soon and I can pay you out of her excess, but first we have to work out the remaining balance. We can talk about that later, I have to go to work.

I'll be in touch,

Steve
Southern State Exotics

Now, all of a sudden all his animals are dead, but we know he has sold them, and had them listed on his site, b/c I HELPED ANNE put them up there when we designed their site.

His remaining balance is $1322 however Steve said he has had $564.50 worth of animals die in the 7 days (incredible how when it comes down to owing the money, half of it is maguically dead.)

He said that since the invoice said 7 day health guarantee, even though he bought at wholesale pricing he is entitled to the 7-day. And we won't see a cent of it.

Here's the emails:

12:25 on 8/16

-----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 12:25 AM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


As far as the balances with Moon lit media.

I never was given the registration on the web domain name. It is listed to Moonlit Media. So that takes away $25. That leaves $100. I will pay you this amount.

I will not pay for August hosting due to the fact that I do not need August hosting. You can cancell it.

Now if you want to transfer the Southernstatesexotics.com name over to me then I will pay the registration feee. Which will bring the balance back up to $125


I have no problems with this.

Steve

Response 12:56 on 8/16:

No, there was never any charge with me for domain registration. I didn't charge you for that, you paid Black Labs for that. The $125 is the balance for the website design.


Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 12:19 AM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


You are just a little confusede on the total. You were going to send that much, but you only sent 1822.00. I have a copy of your invoice here if you need one. Also you gave us a 7 day guarantee during which time $564.50 of that died. So that would bring the total down to $1257.50. Then take away our deposit of $500 that leaves $757.50. That is where we stand as of now. As far as Upstate goes.

My apologies, I forgot we changed it.

However, you purchased wholesale. On CONSIGNMENT, that gives you 24 hour live arrival for DOA's. On top of that, you are NOW claiming that over $500 is dead? Because we are asking for payment? Your balance is $1322. Please remit payment ASAP. We shipped these animals to you on June 25th, almost 2 months ago and have only received the original $500. If you need more time, we will work with you, but do need to see at least another $400-$500 and can work with you for a couple weeks on the rest.

I think we have been fair and patient long enough. Since we were friends, we worked together and we helped get your business started on this credit, which now has been a negative for us. I am sure you have sold off most of those animals since I do not see them on your site anymore.


Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Sent 1:12 on 8/16:

I got the same guarantee that is stated on the bottom of YOUR invoice. That is 7 days. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. I do however owe you the $757.50. Which I will pay you as soon as I get the money. Will probably be around the first of the month or so.

I will pay for half of August web hosting.

Now we can either come to an agreement on this or presue it further. We are all adults here and agreements made will be adhered to.

Sent 1:27 on 8/16:

Well you did purchase wholesale and wholesale is in the ENTIRE industry a 24 hour live arrival only.

However, if you would like to use the guarantee that you believe you are entitled to, we need pictures and proof of ALL doa's that you are claiming. You say $564.50, I need that amount in proof. Also, in accordance with our guarantee:

"We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also! "

On top of that we were NEVER notified within those 7 days that $564.50 of animals died. So, with that said, I need proof of the animals that Anne did notify us of that died within that 7 day period (pictures), and I will also need a vet report for each of those.

Until then, the balance is $1322 and please remit that payment ASAP. I do need to see some money this week, I can work with you until the first of the month on the remainder.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

-----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 6:47 AM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


Sal,

I am not playing ay games with you or having any pissing contests about this. I have a list of the day and time Anne notified you about the dead animals, and you better check back on your old e-mails because you say that you will cover the deaths. Now my offer still stands or you get nothing it is that simple. I will do to you exactly what you have done to everyone else. I am trying to be decent here, but I will not roll over and get railroaded into paying for some half dead parasited animals that you thought you could pawn off on someone. I got a death report all right. It is on a Burmese python. I think you can guess what is says. You want that getting out about you too. Man you just as well can close up shop then.

Now you can either deal with me like a man (which you seem to never do with anybody) or we can let the lawyers settle it. I have a business lawyer that I pay pre paid legal services to. He needs to earn his money too. By the way it is Southern State Exotics LLC now for future reference.

If you need the address for my lawyer just ask, or if you are willing to stand up for Upstate like a man and admit that I am right on the warranty period. After all it is printed on the bottom of the invoice you sent with the animals. Not to smart if you didn't plan on honoring it. Thought Yankees had better sense than that.


Let me know where were heading here. So I can send his address to you. I acvtually want to get this to court. I am really half tempted to just say lets just do that, but I guess it will look better if I give you a chance to do the right thing.

Ps. You will not get any money at all until this is resolved 100%. If that takes 2 years so be it. I'll send it to my lawyer for safekeeping, but I will not send it to you until we get this resolved.

Steve

We have called for a few days at EVERY SINGLE number. Pick up the phone and return some phone calls instead of writing an email. You have our TOLL FREE number so there should be NO EXCUSE. This needs to get resolved TODAY.


Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

-----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:32 PM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


Sal,

I am well aware that you have called. I have been advised to not have any communications that cannot be recorded for future use. So if you have anything to say it must be sent in e-mail.

As far as a resolution to this situation. There already is one. Going by your own warranty period (7 days). You were notified each day on about each animal that perished. I don't know where you have a problem here. You made the policy yourself. So why don't you just stick to it.

Every animal you sent us was malnourished, parasite infested, and dehydrated. I don't know who you thought you were dealing with, but I am not as dumb as you thought. I will not pay you for animals that died under your 7 day period. I am being generous in offering to pay the other $700 due to the fact that 75% of them are dead as well. The others have undergone quarantine, and are on their way back to health...Hopefully.

The snakes were a joke. Come on Sal I would expect more of you than that. Even given your track record. If you are paying anything at all to "your partner" for these snakes you need some serious counseling. I mean have you ever really seen what they send. But I am not including them on the DOA's because they did make it past the 7 day period.

If you have any hopes at all for your business to come back from the pit you have gotten yourself into you had better change some of your business practices. I actually took up for you guys a couple of times (before the lizard deal) when people would comment to me about you, but now I just cant do that. Makes me wonder if it all isn't true.

Look the bottom line is this. I have taken enough of a loss on these unhealthy animals, and it has cost me a small fortune to nurse the ones that have survived back to health. I will pay you the $700 but that is it. No more. If you don't understand my point I guess we will just have to let higher powers decide for you then. I am fully ready to go to court regarding this matter, but I do not think it has to be that way. You know what the right thing to do is.

Oh yeah..Do not ever call and leave another curse word on either of my phones. My daughter sometimes gets the messages. She does not need to hear your gutter mouth.

Now this is the way it is. I have nothing else to say about it.

I have made my one and only offer to you. Either accept it or not. Its only your money. Makes no difference to me.

Steve

Please remit the payment of $757.50 via paypal today, also with a complete list of the animals that you say have contacted us about (original email please). You said you have the money to send to your attorney, so with that said, we are awaiting the payment today. I apologize for saying this is "bull[bleep]" on your answering machine, I am just VERY upset with this whole situation. I hope your daughter didn't hear it.


Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

-----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:52 PM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


We will need everything in writing submitted to us notorised. With your signature. Then I will get my attourney to approve payment to you.

----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:50 PM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


You will not get a dime until this is resolved completely....To my satisfaction ...You were notified by phone..Each day..Read the previous e-mail...Sal was notified by Anne each of the 7 days...We are awaiting your response..

-----Original Message-----
From: SthrnStExotics@aol.com [mailto:SthrnStExotics@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 8:12 PM
To: upstateexotics@starband.net
Subject: Re: Hello


I have told you that I will not discuss this matter over the phone. Everything has to be in writing. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. Nothing personal..Just business..Sal you do not intimidate me. Threatening phone calls will stand up for themselves in court. BOI...You gotta be joking...They would probably all applaud me for standing up for myself against you and your business practices..Just let me know ...

**Sorry if it's jumbled, trying to get everything**

He will not answer the phone or send us the money owed. He has been reading the thread on Corey and how he owes us money and now is trying the same thing.

It's shameless how someone can even try this, that his name now is on the BOI. If we are sooooo wrong why did he not ship back any animals that were "sick, malnutritioned" or whatever, or even TELL US!!! This one's a no brainer. You can see clearly what he's trying to do...he already has a lawyer involved...sign of guilt?

No only that we do not hear from them, get excuses, and only yesterday do we get an email about all these dead animals...coincedence that it's around the same time that we posted on Corey???

If he wants the 7 day guarantee and a $564.50 credit:
1. He should have contacted us with a list of ALLLLLL the doa's witghin those 7 days.
2. Should have given us pictures/proof of the doa's
3. Sent a vet report for (which if we remember is REQUIRED according to the 7 day guarantee he is referring to).

I'll even bite the bullet let's say. If you want that 7 day guarantee give me the pictures and vet report for EACH of the pennies you are counting. INCLUDING the burms you sold to a customer, whatever happend in that amount of time, and had them die after SELLING TO HIM, and expect ME or US GLOBAL to pay for. (When I NEVER got paid for them in the first place). You've got to be kidding me. Here's a copy of that email:

This is the remainder of the top email from Anne. Sent 8/04/03 Over a month after they got their shipment and were obviously selling the "sick, malnutioned animals":

[/quote]Also wanted to let you know that the 10 burmese that we got from you were sick....this is an email that we received today from the man we sent them to the day after we got them from you:

I just got home & got your email, I appreciate your honesty. However,that does not help me out of the financial burden you have put me in. I have a fifth baby getting ready to die, I know this because they all have the same symptoms right before they go. They get very thin & flat within a matter of 24 hours, their tongue will come out but does not fork apart when they are smelling the air. Right before they die they crap everything out. Does this seem to coincide with your findings? I bought 10 from you for $350. So far I have sold 4 to some of my customers, 3 for $50 & 1 for $60 for a total of $210. I had more orders but refused to deliver until I figured out what was happening to them.
If you would like to earn my future business, I would appreciate a way to cover my $140 deficit. I'm not even talking about turning a profit, just covering my cost. If you have healthy babies now, then ship me 3 healthy ones I can sell @ $50/each. Perhaps a single healthy adult burmese (5'+) or even a healthy albino if you have them. If you need proof of death I can dig up the carcasses & fed ex them to you. Let me know.
Jeremiah


Thought you might want to check into this with your supplier.

Anne[/quote]

And the funny thing, he's trying to even blame our wholesaler. How about placing the blame where it belongs Steve...with you.

I have also attached a copy of the invoice they recieved with shipping.

After all that is said and done, we decided to just take this as a loss, but yet ANOTHER learning experience, and just take the $757.50 back or the rest of my animals. AND HE STILL WON'T DO ANYTHING TO MAKE THIS RIGHT!!!

Now we'll do this test. Either I want my money or my animals (which according to your email on the 4th, yuo've been selling). So ship me back my animals..at my cost.....or are they dying off as you're reading this???

It's a shame Steve, we helped you get your business started...oh SORRY Southern States Exotics LLC...ah hem.
If you want to make right by this, I want my $757.50 now and I will give you time for the balance, or just return all my animals to me. You can keep the $500 worth that you have already paid for.

I hope everyone can read this I had to shrink it down and put in 2 images:




Also, I would like to be paid the $125 for the website I did for them.

I will post the true side of this argument tomorrow. They are playing the victim again. I have better things to do tonite than sit here and defend myself against all Sals lies. By the way he will probably need donations to pay for his lawyer since childsupport siezed all his money...

Steve Smith

Southern States Exotics

HAHAHAHAhahahahaHAhHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahaHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahHaHAHahaHAHahahahahaha ah and so on and on and on with the evil laugh track. Talk about no honor amoung theives!!!!

Here we go again. Steve, damn it man, I think you may actually owe upchuck. If you didn't follow their written instructions, and not getting the vet reports on each dead animal is NOT following their written instructions, then you do owe them regardless of when or how they died. You really should, and I think do, know this. Wholesale is not retail. I really don't appreciate you putting me in the position of saying that upchuck is right, but it seems they are.

If you did not follow their written instructions to the letter, and I believe it is for their retail customers and so the length is longer than would apply to a wholesale customer, that would be you, but since you did not you really do owe them. You should do the right thing, and yet why do I think that you won't..... and pay them off, the full amount. Any less is plain and simple theivery.

Thought you rebs knowed better than that.

Wes Pollock

I will post the true side of this argument tomorrow. They are playing the victim again. I have better things to do tonite than sit here and defend myself against all Sals lies.

You had enough time to get a lawyer, enough time over the last several months to sell the animals without paying me, enough time to send me email responses within minutes, but not enough time to post your side?

What do you need time to figure out how to find a way to not pay me?

August 16, 2003
Claim #: 7987-30APR03
Upstate Exotics
61 Lemaire Way
Cossayuna NY 12823

Attention: Sal & Alison Tornambene

Dear Upstate Exotics.
Subject: Refund that has yet to be issued.

Sal and Alison Tornambene, please give me my rightful refund. I asked on 04/19/03 for my refund. I opened dispute claim #: 7987-30APR03 in the total of $180.00 on 04/30/03 against Upstate Exotics. Today’s date is 08/16/03 and I yet to receive a refund. If you do not have the means to settle with Bank of America then let me know. If you choose to send me a money order for the full amount made in the name of Anthony Pappalardo I will in fact contact them and relay this information. Thanks so much for you time and assistance in this important matter.



Regards,
Anthony Pappalardo

Upstate... you chastise southern state exotics for not responding right away... stating how they have time to do this and that other thing, and scoffing that they don't have time to respond to you.


Well I find it interesting that YOU, Upstate, have TIME to post here, and in the other thread you recently started, and yet have NO TIME to answer the questions put forth to you regarding Tony. You remember him? The one whom you could prove you took his money, but alas, you have no means of proving you GAVE IT BACK!

Don't spew out to others about "time" if you yourself don't have time to answer a few specific and POINTED questions on the thread about YOU.

Jeeze, I shouldn't get my nose into this, but dang, regardless of whether or not Southern State has done you wrong, you've refused to even consider that you might have done Tony wrong.

You know what...

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A CROOK OR A SCAM ARTIST DOES NOT MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE TO RIP THEM OFF!

All the comments I have seen on the two newer threads started by Upstate with these "You deserve it" type of comments congratulating the people who may or may not owe Upstate money are pretty damn sickening. If you support criminal activity against ANYONE, including another criminal, it says a lot about the morals of the people involved.

It's immoral to decide that you're going to enter into a binding agreement with someone and then decide, arbitrarily when it comes time to pay that somehow that debt doesn't exist just because the person you owe it to is scum.

It's also unacceptable to approach a seller with a stated policy and then decide without prior agreement that their terms and conditions don't apply.

Criminal actions are criminal actions no matter who the victim is- if you rip off a crook, you're just as bad as they are.

You know, all in all I think it shows the power of the BOI that even a bad guy would recognize the importance of coming here to report other bad guys.

I got this a while ago, an hour or so and just haven't been able to figure out how to feel about it. I've seen little dogs trying to get in good with big dogs, tough guys that get their butts kicked trying to befriend someone to do some buttkicking for them, politicians trying to get anyone to believe anything they say...... and now this. I don't consider myself a big dog, especially not in the world of reptiles- I do have a big mouth but that's different- I'm not some tough guy as a rule, and I am in no way a politician. It sort of feels like alison is trying to get me to take her side, be her friend, or just say it's ok.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER

As Seamus said, "criminal actions are criminal actions" and unfortunately upchuck/upstate have been on the recieving end. Just because I think they have been stolen from does NOT mean I am siding with them, as the below should prove.

Yuck and eeewwww just don't sum up the feeling that alison has stirred up.

alison, please take care of your past lies and instances of theivery. It's not right to have it happen to you, deserved no doubt, but not right. Karma.

Re: Hey There....
Here's the way I see it.

I don't have different standards for each person. In the case with corey as well as the one with steve I think you were wronged. So far, that may change. Therefore, with them you are upstate.

In regards to Tony, I think you have lied and stolen from him. Hence the upchuck.

So far, for the record, I have not seen you do the right thing by anyone other than yourself. I just happen to think that even known liars and crooks, when the evidence is overwhelmingly in their favor deserve to be treated by the same standards as anyone else. I think you're lucky I think that way, as is given evidence by so many applauding the actions of corey and steve in relation to you.

Frankly, I think you've got a lot of nerve complaining about being ripped off when you are so good at it yourselves.

So, in conclusion, so long as I think you've been wronged you'll be upstate, so long as you are doing the wrong, in my opinion, you're upchuck. If you don't like it take care of Tony and ALL the others who you have ripped off. Then I won't have any reason to call you upchuck, other than the deplorable condition of the reptiles you sell, which is another matter entirely and one which I don't want to get into here and now.

Wes Pollock, lifter of heavy things


quote:
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UpstateExotics1 wrote on 08-17-2003 04:04 AM:
Wes,

We may have different views on the BOI. And I know you will never buy from us, however I do thank you for seeing that we do "do the right thing" by people, however we have learned that it kicks us right is the a$$. We tried to do right with Corey and Steve, with helping them stock up on inventory, as people have done for us to help US get started in the business.

I'm sure you know how rough it is out there, especially getting started with a new business, learning the business, getting the kinks out, and learning by your mistakes. That's only what we're trying to do, by changing and helping others the best we can.

I also want to say that, everyone is waiting to see if Tony gets his refund, for me to try and get the charge back posted on here. I just hope people can look back and say "Gee maybe they aren't so bad".

Thanks

Sal & Alison
Upstate Exotics

P.S. I almost dropped dead when you referred to us as "Upstate" in Corey's post rather than Upchuck. Please, refer to us by our company name not "upchuck" and stick to the lifting heavy things? lol

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08-17-2003 04:24 AM Online