What method do you use to ship?

I don't personally see the airlines as being all that much safer, with the single exception of the risks inherent in the package being refused.

If Ken comes back and reads this thread again, hopefully he'll have time to type out the situation which occured after he went to Daytona a few years back to pick up stock for his shop and sent it back Delta Dash on the same plane he was traveling on.

There are just as many package mishaps with the airlines as with any other carrier, the only real advantage is the ability to disclose and insure the contents of a package... But a dead animal is still a dead animal. It's also not simply a cost or even convenience issue, not everyone has an airport that they can drive to in any reasonable length of time... An hour or two, that's alright... ten or fourteen hours to the nearest Delta hub which will deal with packages is more than anyone could consider reasonable.

If given a choice about which carrier would make the best one to allow the shipments in their policies, I'd personally be inclined to go with Airborne Express for a few reasons... They keep their vans within a much narrower range of temperature than the FedEx or UPS vans do and they will also pick up packages being sent by individuals who do not hold an account with them, albeit at a slightly increased rate. This would allow those shippers who do produce maybe a clutch or two a year strictly as a hobby and want to sell the offspring to offset their costs a bit to have a valid outlet for doing so without needing to jump through paperwork hoops, wait for approval or pay a prohibitive yearly fee for the service. Although any of the three would be great if they were to allow shipments, this would simply be slightly more convenient than having to go to the nearest UPS hub or FedEx office to drop the package off.

I agree wholeheartedly though that the first shipper to break the restriction and allow snakes to be sent is going to become THE method of shipping harmless reptiles.

I would have to disagree that it is illegal to use any shipper other then airlines, you would have to show me some proof there. As far as I am aware its against COMPANY POLICIES.

Next to the issue of "everyone shipping airlines" and makeing a 25$ cornsnake a 75$ one. ARE YOU SERIOUS.

First you have the mentioned time issues. Then you have cost, I know for a FACT the cheapest way for ME to ship snakes from MY airport is VIA DELTA. The CHEAPEST DELTA SHIPMENT I CAN GET IS ROUGHLY 69 $ plus tax.

So let me get this straight, I should sell corn snakes for 75$ shipped, when it costs me 70 to ship the snake, offer a live arrival health guaruantee for what 3 years????, all for what 5$ for the snake. Not to mention the HUNDREDS of other dealers that are not only WILLING, but ABLE to sell someone the same snake for 50$ shipped, make 25$ on the snake, and their coustomer doesnt have to drive to the airport.

Lets not put all the lazyness off on the sellers. I have had many people refuse to have animals shipped Delta, not only for price, but due to distrust of the service, or just inability to make it to the airport easily to get the animal.

Door to Door shipping is a MUST for everyone in the business if ANYONE gets it. If not, then yes lets all go to the airlines. But untill the field is level one way or the other, it needs fixed.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Mister Carmany, are you certain of that?

I ask because... USPS allows the private shipping of select livestock with no problems and they can't be defined as an airline carrier any more or less than the private shipping companies.

Wouldn't it constitute an illegal monopoly of sorts if the federal laws only allowed the federal carrier to ship a certain type of goods?

the first shipper to break the restriction and allow snakes to be sent is going to become THE method of shipping harmless reptiles.

Indeed. Currently I ship under the radar via FedEx Priority Overnight, but I don't ship enough packages per year to make it worth my time to get an account with anyone, let alone go through the hassle of getting approved by someone like Delta.
Why FedEx? Because there's a FedEx shipping center near me, and it's easy enough to leave work early, drop by there, and send the package out.

I'd prefer to ship in the clear, but working with shipping companies to get special deals just isn't worth my time with the low volume I deal with. If one of the shipping companies had regulations where all I had to do was walk up to the counter and pay the fee, I'd be happy to do so. I'd even be happy to leave the box unsealed for inspection so that they could see the animal(s) were packaged properly, if that were a requirement.

-Kat Hall

I have been using Airborne Express/with their permission, I have an account with them.
I am trying to get certified as a shipper with Delta so that if I need to get a reptile to its' destination the same day (as in very cold weather) I will be able to. It takes weeks or months for them to inspect your "product" before they will certify you. I have been waiting a couple of months now. Deb

I figure I should toss my 2c in, but from a different angle.

Personally, I've only ever bought one animal that had to be shipped (I prefer to handle and pick them out myself, but I'm weird like that). It was shipped USPS, got to me fine, all that jazz.

However, I have briefly (and unplesantly) worked for Fed-Ex before, as a package handler and sorter in a satelite hub. If I were shipping anything through Fed-ex, it would be in a box made of plate-metal, not cardboard. Maybe they do something special for live animals, but the boxes that came through the Cincinnati hub were not exactly handled with care. "Don't throw packages"? My ass, the things were airborne more often than if they were shipped via Delta, if you get my drift. Packages on conveyor belts would be crushed, sometimes unrecognizably, when a jam occured. Of course, I personally highly non-plussed at the large buckets of toxic chemicals (Fischer scientific) that came hurtling down the chutes and into the trucks. H2SO4, yum. And I have many memories of fragile packages being punted around.

As I said, maybe live animals are shipped differently, but my point is that just because the management assures you a package will be treated well doesn't mean the actual package handlers will live up to it. Also, given how they treat employees and the lack of a good union like UPS has to prevent that, I won't touch Fed-Ex on ethical grounds. When a place is offering $9/hour hire-on-the-spot jobs and cannot hire people fast enough to replace those that are quitting, you know things are bad.

Henry Astley

I agree in a perfect worl Airborne would be the way to go.

Up untill my packages were starting to be searched for snakes, and my account was being miss billed, then doubled billed, I was happiest, and felt safest with airborne by far. As mentioned the trucks are more temperature controlled, but also the buildings themselves are more of a temp controlled enviroment then UPS.

I used to work at UPS, and honestly I think its cruel to ship with them (but I do do it sad to say). I think fed ex would be a step up from ups, especially with UPS trying to take over larger and larger volume deals, the little guys and packages will likely be less important.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

There are just as many package mishaps with the airlines as with any other carrier, the only real advantage is the ability to disclose and insure the contents of a package... But a dead animal is still a dead animal. It's also not simply a cost or even convenience issue, not everyone has an airport that they can drive to in any reasonable length of time... An hour or two, that's alright... ten or fourteen hours to the nearest Delta hub which will deal with packages is more than anyone could consider reasonable.

Like I stated in an earlier post, NO service is perfect!

OBZ

I never said I would put a small value animal at risk, so please don't make false accusations that I would just because you didn't like my post. I ship all my animals with the same care, even if they are just $25 or $1000, they are all cared for in the same way!

My previous post directed towards you, is not attacking your opinion. Just pointing out that it's not always possible to ship airport to airport. It doesn't happen and won't. Sorry if it rubbed you the wrong way, but I don't and won't treat an animal any less according to $$ value

I have received animals from some reputable people on here. By overnight service and I don't believe they put an animal at risk by doing so.

Mark Carmany wrote,

"The problem isn't with the individual shipping companies. The IATA and Federal Government says that live animals can only be shipped via air cargo. It is plain and simply illegal to ship live animals using a ground carrier (ie. UPS, Fedex, Airbourne Express)."

I would REALLY like to see some sort of evidence for that, because such a statement is completely contrary to ever thing I have found to be true through my research. I understand that it is against the company policies of most overnight carriers to accept many live animals, but it is not at all "illegal," which would imply actual codified laws existing on the books.

Before I believe that shipping animals via FedEx, UPS, or Airborne is illegal, I am going to have to see the actual laws such a practice would be violating. Thanks in advance for your help in this area, Mark.

Next to the issue of "everyone shipping airlines" and makeing a 25$ cornsnake a 75$ one. ARE YOU SERIOUS.

alright everyone... its just my poinion, that it is the safest, securest most reliable method out there.

First you have the mentioned time issues. Then you have cost, I know for a FACT the cheapest way for ME to ship snakes from MY airport is VIA DELTA. The CHEAPEST DELTA SHIPMENT I CAN GET IS ROUGHLY 69 $ plus tax.

so ok, the $25 corn should be $84 then, plus tax... again, just my opinon. i believe its in the animals best interest. obviously, im glad im not a cornsnake dealer,.. infact im glad im not a dealer at all. once anyhting becomes a source of income, it gets a bottom line, then you allow things to be compromised.
yes thats the math,.. does it make 'sense'? to me yeah... that $25 corn is just as alive as an albino tiger retic. So should ya not agree with that, based on the financial issues involved in what i think is the best way to ship... well you wont be convincing me, nor am i trying to convince anyone... just putting my honest thought on the mattter out there.

So let me get this straight, I should sell corn snakes for 75$ shipped, when it costs me 70 to ship the snake, offer a live arrival health guaruantee for what 3 years????, all for what 5$ for the snake. Not to mention the HUNDREDS of other dealers that are not only WILLING, but ABLE to sell someone the same snake for 50$ shipped, make 25$ on the snake, and their coustomer doesnt have to drive to the airport.

k, i see your bottle of serious pills is empty... settle down. My viewpoint is not that of a buisness man. I dont work with any animal for possible or any forseable financial gain. its a hobby... a passion, so i feel the need to do everythign the best way i see possible. i dont have any 'competition'. im just a collector... sometimes i sell an animal or two.... usually for a loss, see what a good buisness man i am?

Lets not put all the lazyness off on the sellers. I have had many people refuse to have animals shipped Delta, not only for price, but due to distrust of the service, or just inability to make it to the airport easily to get the animal.

i didnt, i think its laziness on both parts....

Door to Door shipping is a MUST for everyone in the business if ANYONE gets it. If not, then yes lets all go to the airlines. But untill the field is level one way or the other, it needs fixed.

i can agree.... but certain measures would have to be taken by overnight carriers to convince me of a healthy trip for the animal. frankly, they dont give a crap, nor do they have an obligation to give one.... just like you dont have to ship that $25 corn via dash for $69 bucks, they dont have to pay to heat the plane, the truck or pay to train the knucklehead 'thrower' not to kick boxes that say 'fragile'. i just dont see it happening.
for now, the airlines do the best job of shipping live animals i know of... are they perfect, naw... but since we cant teleport our animals yet... its my choice. Not cause it saves me money, just cause it saves me peace of mind.