Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

Originally Posted by tsthompson

Has this been resolved yet?

I clearly posted several times saturday that it would be taken care in a couple business days when the bank chooses to clear the payment. So sunday night with a total elapsed business days count of.... ZERO have passed, what exactly would have changed??? And you guys wonder why I find this frustrating?

I was not at the April Indy show, but the same thing happened at the Taylor show in April?? ( Evan was not directly involved) it was probably a different thief, stealing from a different vendor. The situation was the same, the vendor grabbed the the person by the collar, and drug him to to the front of the show hollering the whole way. I believe charges were pressed against him. I also seem to remember everyone shouting kudos to the vendor, and several people applauding him. The month before, 1 of the vendors had an Emperor pin stolen, and 1 month before that a vendor had a tub with several pinstripes in it stolen. I did not hear of anything coming up missing this last Sat. Good job Evan!

Just for future reference for everybody... a buyer sends you say..$800 and then minus the fees it is $776. Then circumstances arise and after all is said and done they need a refund you do not have to have $800 in your account, after all it was the Paypal fees that deducted the $24. So if you hit the refund button they will receive their $800 back because Paypal will refund the fees that they took out. ALSO for future refrence..yes, you can refund partial amounts. So after all that I've read it just seems that a lot of this arose due to the sellers lack of knowledge on how Paypal is operated. But If he uses it as much as he claims he should know all this? Idk. Either way I was just trying to help out with some public knowledge and help future transactions run a little smoother for everybody.

Originally Posted by evansnakes

Get facts before you convict!

The kid at the Indy show stealing was 16 years old. I never touched his body in any way because I know the law and could obviously tell he was a minor. I picked him up by the collar of his jacket. I never got "physical" in any way with him other than that. I made a scene purposely to silence the crowd because he was with three other kids, that ran out as soon as I caught him. Sure enough, we recovered from his person property that he stole from 8 vendors at the show! When the police took him into custody he not only was revealed to have had multiple arrests for theft and shoplifting but he also voluntarliy confessed to the police to try to avoid going to jail, that he comes to the show every time and steals from dealers every time. He has stolen, by his own admission, several hundred dollars worth of product from dozens of dealers at the show.

I understand the criticism, but when you vend at the shows and get animals that you put your time, love and money into just to have people steal them it is very personal and very upsetting and I dont give a rats arse how young or old they are!!! It is not my job to have to teach YOUR children right from wrong!!! I was pissed, you are darn right I was pissed and if the show promoter and the stupid parents of these stupid kids are not willing to keep them from stealing from me, you had bet your arse THAT I WILL. You better believe that because of that scene I made hundreds of people who vend at the shows will not be stolen from.

I would have to side with Evan on this one. Someone getting caught red handed stealing really deserves anything and everything that results from their actions. I tend to suspect that anyone here catching someone stealing from THEM would do pretty much the same exact thing, if not more.

A thief is a thief is a thief. I don't care how old/young they are..Back to the original topic, I hope this gets resolved sooner than later and both parties could put this behind them.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

I would have to side with Evan on this one. Someone getting caught red handed stealing really deserves anything and everything that results from their actions. I tend to suspect that anyone here catching someone stealing from THEM would do pretty much the same exact thing, if not more.

Gotta agree - ideally there'd be no profanity, but that's not an unforgivable slip in a situation like that. Sounds like Evan did the right thing; raised the alarm and detained the thief, turned the thief over to police.

Originally Posted by zach_24_90

Just for future reference for everybody... a buyer sends you say..$800 and then minus the fees it is $776. Then circumstances arise and after all is said and done they need a refund you do not have to have $800 in your account, after all it was the Paypal fees that deducted the $24. So if you hit the refund button they will receive their $800 back because Paypal will refund the fees that they took out. ALSO for future refrence..yes, you can refund partial amounts.

I was trying to explain that too, that giving a quick refund through paypal /saves/ money because the fees will be refunded too, so no one's out $.
But evan says he will cover the fees, he said the problem is he doesn't have the money right now. Which sucks, wasn't a good move to spend it before the animal was delivered and the customer was happy. But if that's what it is then it's a waiting game for him to raise more funds.

For everyone's sake I hope that's not much longer.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

I would have to side with Evan on this one. Someone getting caught red handed stealing really deserves anything and everything that results from their actions. I tend to suspect that anyone here catching someone stealing from THEM would do pretty much the same exact thing, if not more.

Ditto that 100%....steal from me you might get apprehended with some aggressive repercussions and a trip in a squad car.....I'll applaud Evan for not smacking this idiot in the face....he DESERVED everything that happened to him.....

Originally Posted by evansnakes

Big time BS! When I brought the kid up front not one person said one negative thing to me, in fact over a dozen vendors and the police all thanked me repeatedly. It was a group of vendors that grabbed the kid and started beating him, I just stood by the door waiting for the police. I did nothing to him.

I was standing right next to you and one of the guys working at the River Bend Reptiles table when he asked you more than once to let go of the kids collar because he wasn't going anywhere.

I guess the incident minus the obscenities you were screaming wouldn't have caused PAYING customers (you know the people that purchase the items you and the other vendors have for sale) to gather up their kids and leave. You never know nowadays, when there is a commotion like that, bullets may be flying soon after. Not everyone was there to steal things and they weren't sticking around to see exactly what was happening.

Customers walking out was also probably the reason that Brian, the show promoter, was upset. Maybe some of them will never return to the show. I get the instant gratification of teaching the thief a lesson, but I guess I am thinking more long-term as far as traffic coming into the show which keeps vendors returning also.

I will agree to disagree on this subject, but to get back to the meat of the topic at hand, I don't believe that sellers of any items should commingle funds that are paid for the items they are selling with funds meant for other purposes. The sale isn't complete until the buyer has their item and is satisfied with it. The money they sent to pay for the items shouldn't be spent until that happens. Get a separate account and transfer the funds after the sale is complete.

Pay the buyer her $800.00 immediately, it's not their fault you spent the money before you should have.

I was holding the kid until he sat down in the chair I told him to sit in. As soon as he sat in the chair that I told him to sit in I released him. That simple. That is what I was going to do, dont care what anyone else said. And of course, as soon as I did let go of the kids jacket, he ran away. And the guys you are saying wanted me to let him go, were the ones who grabed him up, pulled his hair, punched him, put him in a choke hold and tore his shoes and shirt off. So I stand by what I said. You are so offended by what happened two weeks later, but you had nothing to say at the time? Even though you were "standing right next to me"??? So what a major hipocrite to come on here now and attack me but god forbid you had any balls at all to say something when you were "standing right next to me". There is not one thing in this modern world of ours that I hate more than internet tough guys happy to insult and cast their little attacks online while they stand impotent in person. What courage it takes to attack somebody from a keyboard!!! I am old school. I was raised to do. People like John Apple who knows me knows that I would have loved nothing more than to beat that thieves' arse and let the police do something more worth their time. BUT in thiks weak willed, no personal responsiblity, bleeding heart, a-hole society that we now live in people like me who have a bad temper and a strong urge to bludgen those who wrong us, must always walk on ice and worry about everyones feelings, everyones' lawsuites and crying, whining dipsticks. Enough is enough.

And for Casey, just this Saturday at the Taylor show I had a guy steal a giant day gecko off my table. I immediately told the show promoters and they caught the guy and returned my animal in a few minutes. It was very well done.

On the only subject that this thread was about.... if anyone even cares, not only has the initial payment been refunded, but as I said would happen the buyer never mentioned that and yes I am losing the fees on the transactions. I know how paypal works. I have done thousands of transactions on paypal and have my own priority phone number to call that goes direct to a supervisor so I dont have to struggle with the India call center. And with the hold paypal placed on the transactions it went beyond the period alloted for a refund. I now have to send her money from my account and lose the fees. That was my point. I did not spell it out because others did but apparently alot of people are posting on this thread without reading many of the posts as they are asking the same questions and making the same statements over and over that have been answered and addressed many times.

I forgot, about the "you dont spend money until this or that" lines, I am not rich. I work hard for my money. For anyone that has seen my display at shows there are hundreds of top notch captive bred and wild caught animals covering everything from snakes, lizards, frogs, toads, spiders, scorpions and more. I consistantly bring the largest variety of product to all the shows that I do and I am a one man operation. I keep, import, buy, breed, trade and consign a huge variety of product including even dry goods and non reptile stuff and do so all by myself. This I do to make a living. There have been a bunch of snobbish assinine posts in this thread that I chose to ignore until now that I found very offensive making statements about how little money $800 and how they cant believe that is all that I was trying to put together and that it was so insignificant. Well let me tell you, I do not know one person in this business that is not very tight on money right now.

Business is way down with the down economy, pet stores and show vendors are dropping like flies all over the country. There are less than half as many big importers and wholesales in business now than there were just 3-4 years ago. There are hundreds of people selling off their collections out of financial desperation. Sometimes $800 is not a huge deal but today it is. To attack me based on that is cowardly, snobbish, petty and reveals so much more about YOUR character than you can imagine. It has become standard practice in this industry to presell animals now before you even have babies and in some cases before you even have eggs. I see it ever year. The deposits are non refundable and the people who collect the money does not keep it in escrow pending their closed transactions. They are doing this business in this way because they need the money to spend right now! I have already heard of 3 people that have taken money this year for banana ball pythons that do not exist yet and that money is gone and spent, there will not be any refunds.

Same thing with the baby balls in Africa and other imports, you pay weeks to months in advance of your shipment coming and there are no refunds. The money is spent to buy your animals when you send it over there. It is done.

No, I dont have an account where I hold money until the animals get delivered and I also do not know of one company in this business that I have been in since 1989, that has ever done that. Maybe it is what you think should be done, but it is not practical and does not exist in the real world. So just drop it. This deal is over and done with, as posted about 20 times now the balance of the refund is going to be refunded as soon as the bank releases the cash. It is not in my control and not my delay. It is how banks work and in fact, how paypal works, since it was their delays that caused me to lose money and time in this deal. So if you dont like that email or call them and see what they say.