Another Thorn for the Herp Community - Illegal Venomous Reptile Shipping

Oh also Earl....I wasn't laughing "at" you, I was laughing "with" you. That was some quick thinking. I probably would have just passed out on the spot. Good thing you look back at it now.

Iguana raspicaudalis earlturneri

LOL!

Originally Posted by SPZOOLOGICAL

Another idea is establishing an effective deterrent. I also want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and it seems like a hardass approach, but should we allow a second chance for first time offenders? I'm curious about this because appropriate and legal methods of transport is one of the first thing every venomous enthusiast learns. Is it unrealistic to assume that when someone gets popped that the word will travel fast that "it's not something to do."? The approach seems harsh, but so are accidental injuries. Again, this is just another way of looking at it.

Sean P.

It does travel pretty fast if determined individuals pursue. Look what happen to Pete and Adam. We followed the scum to four boards.

Pete had to take all his sponsors off his site. Everyone I think knows the character of both now because they were pursued.

They will probably not be arrested are charged with anything but the public was made aware of them which hopefully will deter them from illegally shipping hots.

Now, all you have to do is search for both names on-line and you will be brought to this forum. I think this is great self-policing and works.

Pete and Adam know that authorities might be watching them, a wonderful deterrent to doing anything illegal.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

It does travel pretty fast if determined individuals pursue. Look what happen to Pete and Adam. We followed the scum to four boards.

Pete had to take all his sponsors off his site. Everyone I think knows the character of both now because they were pursued.

They will probably not be arrested are charged with anything but the public was made aware of them which hopefully will deter them from illegally shipping hots.

Now, all you have to do is search for both names on-line and you will be brought to this forum. I think this is great self-policing and works.

Pete and Adam know that authorities might be watching them, a wonderful deterrent to doing anything illegal.

Good example, however, look at serpentboy78, when Dan accused him of sending the Coral illegally, Mike's word was that Dan "talked" him through shipping (how to do it, not that big a deal etc) it by that method, everyone seemed to gloss over it. Now we have at least one other person who stated that he actually paid the $80 charge to have items shipped via Delta, and Mike shipped it via ground and then calls and says, you should be receiving your package today, and it comes ground. Something like 6 Agkistrodon and 5 Crotalus, he even tapped the Crotulus' rattles, and apparently is going so far as to use alias', it's obvious that a pattern is developing.

Of course as the receiver how do you do anything about it, when we have people posting that the reason it happens is because people are willing to receive the packages illegally, even though in this case it is apparently a 100% innocent victim. Does he refuse the package? Given Mike's history, I bet that person would have been out all his money and the snakes. Do you report it, and possibly implicate yourself?

Another thing that seems kind of off balance, is your above example, one allegedly "ignorant" violation, of shipping a C. cerastes and we go after the offender with a vengence, granted it was Pete's Pride, Stupidity, Lying, etc, that caused it to turn into a feeding frenzy that enveloped several other sites, but here we have someone who is doing it with no care in the world, and knows he is doing it illegally, and nobody seems to be going after him, or if anybody is, it seems a lot more "soft handed" even though the violations are a lot more egregious. Why no "determined individuals pursuing"?

John

It was 5 years ago prior to Ripa's singing with cocktail lounge bands----check out the Dean Ripas Website--apparently, he is it in the music industry. I have never before nor after, received such an illegally mispacked and labeled shipment. I sincerely hope this never happens to anyone else as it not only places the cargo handlers, the Delta cargo personel, and also the buyer in DANGER but also the ENTIRE membership of herpetologists and herpetoculturalists of this wonderful science and hobby. All it would take is a severe bite to occur to a person involved in the shipping and all HELL would break lose----imagine, no more shipping----THINK ABOUT IT--Earl Turner

Originally Posted by reptilebreeder

Good example, however, look at serpentboy78, when Why no "determined individuals pursuing"?

John

I think the wheels are turning on this John. In the background.

In all the dealings I have had in the last few years with Dean Ripa, he has not done anything like what Mr. Turner is describing. In fact he impressed me as a serious and responsible herpetoculturist maintaining a well above average standard of husbandry including veterinary care.

Perhaps he changed his ways substantially before I met him. I would hesitate to condemn him in the present for an incident some years in the past, based on my more recent experiences with him. Though I agree that if the incident happened as described, it was a remarkably irresponsible act that should not be repeated.

Of course as the receiver how do you do anything about it, when we have people posting that the reason it happens is because people are willing to receive the packages illegally, even though in this case it is apparently a 100% innocent victim. Does he refuse the package? Given Mike's history, I bet that person would have been out all his money and the snakes. Do you report it, and possibly implicate yourself?

Those are good questions John. If you report it, you are guilty as well. If you refuse it, you are out of your money, and the snakes might not make it through a return trip.

In this last case you may be able to refuse, and once it's returned report the non-delivery of goods. The seller would have no argument whatsoever (he would be incriminating himself) to explain why he did not deliver the animals you paid for. The buyer's explanation would be simple, he was waiting a package through the airlines as agreed (hopefully in writing through the e-mail exchange).

One other option the buyer has is to first check that the seller can ship through airlines. Second, send the money only for the snake, with shipment to be paid at the airline counter once the package arrives. I have done that in the past via Northwest and it worked just fine. The shipper has no monetary gains by going the cheaper route. The only problem is that he might do it anyways because of the convenience of not having to go to the airport, having to prepare a wooden box, not being a certified shipper, etc.

Any comments?

In time we had put together protocols for safe trades, minimize chances of being scammed, etc. The more I think about it the more I believe we can come up with a protocol that would safeguard the buyer from illegal shipping of hots. Does anyone have friends in the USPS and UPS to whom we could ask these questions?

Regards.

Ms Aunty venom, I sincerely hope that he has changed his mode of shipping and that he does things legally....I personally do not care about his personal life....what I stated---did happen and as I previously mentioned, I hope that this method of irresponsible shipping never again repeats itself.I too breed two species of Bushmasters on a regular basis--our offspring are packed inside two wooden boxes with metal corners and bands; each specimen is placed in two sacks and both the correct number , common and latin (scientific ) name are included on the label for all to see--especially the carrier. We shipped 18 neonates last year and hopefully will be shipping more this year as we are working with a larger number of adults----stenophrys and melanocephala. Have a nice evening, Earl H. Turner

Originally Posted by snakegetters

In all the dealings I have had in the last few years with Dean Ripa, he has not done anything like what Mr. Turner is describing. In fact he impressed me as a serious and responsible herpetoculturist maintaining a well above average standard of husbandry including veterinary care.

Perhaps he changed his ways substantially before I met him. I would hesitate to condemn him in the present for an incident some years in the past, based on my more recent experiences with him. Though I agree that if the incident happened as described, it was a remarkably irresponsible act that should not be repeated.

I find this interesting. I wouldn't condemn him either. He has done alot herpetology and herpetoculture, but I think he needs to practice sound shipping methods all the time....especially w/ his respected reputation. I shipped him two bushmasters recently out of Detroit. I never talked to Dean Ripa, but the person I was shipping for said he was asked by Dean to label the box "Harmless Reptiles". I declined. I also didnt appreciate being asked either. Arrangements were made and the box was sent correctly.

Originally Posted by alvaro

The more I think about it the more I believe we can come up with a protocol that would safeguard the buyer from illegal shipping of hots.

What about posting a WARNING message on the major classified websites alerting buyers to this illegal practice, and informing them of the potential penalties involved? Maybe we can get a deal since it's for the community as a whole. It also gives us a blank check to kick some ass when someone like Mike gets busted. Another idea.

Sean