Regure emerald...going to try fruit\seed eating mice.

Hey Ya'll-
I got to talk to David Button, and he was plenty eager to help. It sounds like he is out of the FS mice at the moment, and he is working with hairless rats now. I'm trying to round up a few mice to start this project for my emmys. I'd like to find Swiss mice (large litter size) if possible, but been having trouble tracking some down. At very least some healthy, parasite free mice would be nice to start. My gal with the problem (northern import 3-4 ft), originally was housed in a 3 ft. Neodesha w.2 34in. dowels. I had a 23wt.=100wt. output florescent bulb on her, heat under water bowl, temps ranged 77-88 on perches day time night time 76, w.plenty humidity and air flow. She is quarantined in my bedroom (low traffic). After her first regurge (large mouse), I thought she may have been to cold. I added a 40 wt. to this a week before her second feeding, raising her hot spot to 95. She ate a regular mouse three weeks after the first, then regurged a week after. I'm now thinking that may have been too warm and that her belly was swelling\digesting too fast. She is now kept in a Barr's pvc 16x16x20 enclosure w. 3 dowels 34 in. varied height. Heat pad under half with water, and 40wt. bulb. Day temps range 82-92 on perches night time 79. Am I still too warm? What do ya'll think? I'd appreciate any info.

I guess you didn't like my response on the other thread, lol.
(j/k, obviously) Hopefully this will get your question some new traffic. Sometimes it IS best to start anew vs tacking on to one that is 6 months old. My response there still stands...except the last question I asked - I found the answer to that in your previous post of 4/3/06 (sorry).

My response (to give people something to build on or tear down) was:

I have had the best luck maintaining emeralds at a constant temp of 84, but there are a number of factors to consider: Humidity is huge. Temperature ranges - this can be in an issue with arboreal setups...and it sometimes takes a bit of work to get things right. I would shoot for more consistency, and less of a variance...say 82 at the coolest spot, to no more than 87-88 at the warmest.

To clarify a few points - insufficient humidity CAN be the cause of regurgs (do you know what the humidity level is in your cage?), as can improper temps. I would also attempt to lose the night drop.

Keith I think 95 is way hot, I set up my ETBs/GTPs so that the temp under the heat panel is 85 or so and the other end is close to room temp around 72 degrees. If I notice them sitting under the heat all the time I'll raise the temp some (or a gravid female where I'll run it around 90 or so) This way they have a broad choice of temps to choose from. Every animal seems to have their own preference, let them tell you what they want.To much heat could be your whole problem , I know everyone tells you something different,,,, best to ask your snake

Has the animal kept a meal down since you've had it? What I'd try is waiting a few weeks and giving a small meal like a mouse hopper. If that stays down slowly increase the size of the meal each time you feed till you get up to an adult mouse. Next time it defecates look for small bones in the stool.

The raising of mice on seeds and fruit is an interesting idea. I would think you could just put your mice on a diet like this for a few months and achieve pretty much the same results as raising them from babies on that diet.Mice seem to need more protein might be an idea to try this with Hamsters or Gerbils which I think can get by with less protein. Keep us posted on how she does. Randy

Harald I asked Keith to start a new thread with his question for the reasons you stated. Randy

I didn't have a problem with the new thread...I just thought it was kinda funny (amusing, not weird) that right after I responded on the old thread, he started a new one.

Sorry-hoped starting new (duplicate) thread would grab more attn. I have a pair of import etbs I'm trying to work into my collection. The gal looks good, but has the regurge problem, the male came a month later full of ticks (in his gums and all), complete with a bit of mouth rot. He looks plenty good now, after some work and a complete shed, he's awaiting his first meal. She kept down her first meal (ex breeder mouse), two weeks later another which she regurged. She was sitting right next to the heat source before regurgitation so I thought she was cold 88ish. (We've been in hortulanus breeding mode lately) I waited three weeks, added extra heat and fed a regular size mouse. After her meal seemed to show in her belly a bit, I kind of figured she was a bit too warm at 95, she had cooler spots to sit but chose to sit near 92ish. I removed the extra heat that I added the week earlier thinking she was too cold. She regurged #2 a couple days after. I switched her, along with the newer male into Barr's cages currently with 30wt. spot hitting 88 on their top perches, with two cooler to choose from also 79-80. They're perching at 85 right now. They have heat under water bowls which keeps their ambient night temp. near 79-80. The only other thing I think I could do to prevent any night temp. drop would be to lose the light and heat pad, and switch to heat emitters. Is that what most keepers are using these days? I'm not thinking the humidity is the problem, they are sprayed with luke warm H2O every morning when the lights come on and just before they go off. They stay fogged until the next morning when they are sprayed again. I usually spray enough for them to drink a bit and keep it foggy, but just enough to evaporate by the next day. I'm working with a small group of mice on fruitseed diets, but have no offspring yet, still a bit young. I'm not going to feed the female for another couple weeks or so, but my male looks hungry. I may try him on a thawed ex breeder mouse soon. Any thoughts otherwise? Should I wait until the fruitseed mice have been gut loaded for a bit (I bought a few extra just in case)? I'm thinking the male gets a thawed mouse, and female has to wait for a diet mouse, I'll just have to see how long they take to get going. Right now I'm not so worried with them as before. I think their adjusted setups are holding a bit more stable.
Thanks again for any thoughts and info.

The heat pad under the water definitely helps with humidity. The fact that you say the cage is still fogged in the morning leads me to wonder if it is TOO humid...I am not familiar with the BARS cages (I've seen them, but don't remember this) - how much ventilation do they have?
There are several options for maintaining consistent temps - I keep mine in 78 qt sterilite boxes, in a temp controlled room. I have cages set up for them in a different room, heated with radiant heat panels, but I can't seem to get the heat dialed into my satisfaction and I'm not moving them til I do. I know what I need to change to make it happen, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. One option I had previously considered was using heat tape up the back of the cages. whatever you choose, make sure it is designed for use in high humidity environments.

They stay fogged until the next morning when they are sprayed again. I usually spray enough for them to drink a bit and keep it foggy, but just enough to evaporate by the next day.

I meant to say were dry by morning when I spray again. I don't like any sitting water for too long, gets foul. The cages are 16x16x20 front open pvc w. 8.5x8.5 screen vented top. They hold humidity great and allow decent airflow also, yet I don't think they'd make it without the two daily sprayings or an auto mister unless I covered the screen some.

Keith one thing I do and Harald mentioned above is to keep them in Tubs, I keep all my imports the same way when I get them. I use the large Tubs 65 quart or there abouts. The photo below is one of my kids, just moved and some are still in the tubs waiting for their cage set up. Heat is mounted to the wall at one end(Like a rack system), this way if they want heat they move down the perch one way or to cool they go the other. It is easy to clean and holds humidity real well. Keep us posted on how she does... Randy

Originally Posted by ravensgait

Keith one thing I do and Harald mentioned above is to keep them in Tubs, I keep all my imports the same way when I get them. I use the large Tubs 65 quart or there abouts. The photo below is one of my kids, just moved and some are still in the tubs waiting for their cage set up. Heat is mounted to the wall at one end(Like a rack system), this way if they want heat they move down the perch one way or to cool they go the other. It is easy to clean and holds humidity real well. Keep us posted on how she does... Randy

Nice emmy you have there.