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USA State Specific Issues Issues that are specific to a particular state, or subregion within a state, should be appended to the existing relevant thread. NEW threads cannot be created in this forum.

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Old 02-12-2005, 11:08 AM   #21
montezuma
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTorres
"I understand some of these concerns, but help me understand, exactly what is wrong with providing adequate housing and health requirements to the animals you breed? Why would any responsible pet owner or breeder mind that? Why would anyone want license to keep animals housed in unsanitary conditions, overcrowded boxes and tanks and then sell sick, emaciated animals?
Don't just read the words when it comes to law... you have to look and see what they are trying to achieve. Adequate housing for a Leopard Gecko is a sweater box but to law enforcement it could be a 10x10 room with a cave, a waterfall, a few cactus... who knows? Its to vague and open to interpretation.
These restrictive laws are Hitler-esque and need to be crushed, and the people who introduce them need to be removed from power.
 
Old 02-12-2005, 12:49 PM   #22
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregh
I understand wanting to get a lot of traffic to view this thread, but isn't there a legislation forum somewhere on here?
Yeah, that's right. And this is another perfect example of my being placed in a "damned if I do, and damned if I don't" type of situation.
 
Old 02-12-2005, 01:06 PM   #23
Classic Dum's
Rich I apoligize for not contacting you ahead of time. If you want to assses points or move the thread thats fare and no one else should either because I did violate the TOS with this thread. As fast as it came down I was trying to move as fast as I could. The best way I could think of to stop this was throwing a few posts in the heavily traveled forums and contacting the IL buisness that would be effected so I spent all day on the phone. IN any event Ive been unoffically informed that this has been pulled. The IL farmers union has a metting with the two officals who sponsored this on tuesday. So monday or tuesday it will be confirmed untill then to anyone reading this I was still send in letters and make phone calls to opose this and send them a message that this kind of bull will not be tolerated.

From what I am told the officals were aprocated by two people who had written this and asked to sponsor and push it. These two people gave them their sales pitch about how they would be saving animals and not infringing on rights etc etc The officals thought hey great and sponsored it now whether or not they didnt read it or understand it I have no idea but from what I am told they are rather embarressed to have been part of this and have dropped it. Like I said its not offical yet, this is all second and third hand info. However monday or tuesday we should be able to confirm this. To those who have taken the time THANK YOU to those who havnt please do. Because if this is actually being dropped and they continue to receive response oposing it they will think twice before ever getting involved again.
 
Old 02-12-2005, 02:26 PM   #24
Scott Nellis
bill's sponser

To the two people who asked "Who is responsible for introducing this bill".....it's written right on the top of the bill......Representative Elaine Nekritz is responsible for the introduction of this bill to commitee. Did either of you guys actually read the bill? I swear, it has PETA's handwriting all over it!!! I think a few phone calls to her office are necessary.

Scott Nellis
 
Old 02-12-2005, 10:16 PM   #25
montezuma
Sorry Scott, I missed it. Thanks for being such a great guy for pointing it out.
 
Old 02-13-2005, 01:19 PM   #26
Tripple H Herps
Quote:
I'd be very cautious of anyone selling animals that can't be confirmed healthy and raised in humane, and acceptable environments...
- I can easily confirm that without a vet inspection every single time I sell something. Again it boils down to the fact that this bill would be impractical to anyone that is sellling reptiles for a bussiness and not a hobby.
 
Old 02-13-2005, 01:37 PM   #27
Classic Dum's
Quote:
why would anyone be so enraged at an attempt to protect those who can't speak for themselves?
On this surface that may seem as though this is what its about but it is not by any means. First it is easier for them to rewrite a law then it is to make a new one. In every state in the US there are already animal cruelty laws on the books. So why not fix those? second you must understand the language. Under this law if you transfer one single animal in the state of IL you must be inspected and permitted prior to tranferring that animal. If you pick up a stray dog and give it to a friend under this you must be permitted. Your looking out for the benifit of that stray animal and you will get to give some of your hard earned money to the state and have state officals wondering around your house. Also understand this portion
Quote:
Animal caretaker Pet shop operator" means any person who sells, offers to sell or , exchange, or offers for adoption with or without charge or donation dogs, cats, birds, fish, reptiles, or other animals customarily
Quote:
obtained as pets in this State
.
No where in there does it says it is limited to IL residents.
Quote:
means any person who sells, offers to sell or , exchange,...in this State
If you are coming in from out of state for the Tinley Park reptiles show next year you may be required to get inspected. Im going to use Bob Clark as an example, for no other reason then everyone has heard his name. Any person would include Bob Clark Shipping ball pythons into IL. Now does he send enough ball pythons here that its worth the hassle for him to jump through the hoops to do so legally under this law. I dunno. But keep in mind it clearly states ANY PERSON(which includes you), no where in there does it have any proposed way that someone from out of state can make the state of IL happy to legally tranfer animals into the state. The state of IL surly is not going to send agents to FL or CA to do inspections. The point I am getting at is this could shut the state lines down.


Now look at the wording for animal care taker
Quote:
Animal caretaker " means any person who sells, offers to sell or , exchange, or offers for adoption with or without charge or donation dogs, cats, birds, fish, reptiles, or other animals customarily obtained as pets in this State.
Anyone who transfers reptiles is an animal caretaker and falls under the wording of this law Now notice what you must do with your reptiles under this law
Quote:
Every animal caretaker pet shop operator, dog dealer, and cattery operator shall provide the following information for every dog or cat available for sale: (a) The age, sex, and weight of the animal. (b) The breed of the animal. (c) A record of vaccinations and veterinary care and treatment. (d) A record of surgical sterilization or lack of surgical sterilization. (e) The name and address of the breeder of the animal. (f) The name and address of any other person who owned or harbored the animal between its birth and the point of sale.
25 (Source: P.A. 87-819.)

26 (225 ILCS 605/18) (from Ch. 8, par. 318)
27 Sec. 18. The licensee shall:
28 a. Maintain sanitary conditions.
29 b. Insure proper ventilation.
30 c. Provide adequate nutrition.
31 d. Provide humane care and treatment of all animals under
32 his jurisdiction.
33 d-5. Provide a sufficient quantity of good quality,
34 wholesome food and water.

HB0707 - 5 - LRB094 04266 RAS 34291 b
1 d-10. Provide adequate shelter and protection from the
2 weather.
3 d-15. Provide veterinary care on an annual basis and also
4 when needed to prevent suffering.
5 d-20. Provide a stimulating and enriching environment.
Now if you look further into this law a "stimulating and enriching environment" is one that includes toys and all kinds of other nonsense that snakes simpy do not need. My dumerils may play with their food sometimes but they sure have no interest in balls, bells or anything else.
Quote:
(f) The name and address of any other person who owned or harbored the animal between its birth and the point of sale.
Can you provide that for every single snake you own? Some maybe, but the majority no I cant. I dont know about you but I really dont think reptiles require yearly vet visits
Quote:
Provide veterinary care on an annual basis and also when needed to prevent suffering.
I mean come on, I agree that when sick they need to be taken to a vet but yearly? They require no vaccinations or anything that needs to be checked and treated on a regualry schedule such as mammals.

Theres alot of other things in there too but just those should be enough to scare anyone. And lastly we dont know for certain that it was PETA members who wrote and brought this up to the officals. From what I am told it was two people who apraoched Elaine gave her a great sales pitch and she thought that this was going to save all the animal in the state of IL. But I have seen enough that I would bet money that PETA is somehow behind this. The vague language, direct wording etc etc just stinks of PETA or some other humaniacs.

Someone asked about who propsed this
Representative Elaine Nekritz (D)
http://www.ilga.gov/house/rep.asp?MemberID=1033
Springfield Office:
258-W Stratton Office Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 558-1004
(217) 557-7204 FAX

District Office:
24 S. Des Plaines River Road
Suite 200
Des Plaines, IL 60016
(847) 257-0450
(847) 257-0452 FAX
Cook County


Representative Paul D. Froehlich (R)
http://www.ilga.gov/house/rep.asp?MemberID=1068
Springfield Office:
232-N Stratton Building
Springfield, IL 62706
(217) 782-3725
(217) 782-1336 FAX

District Office:
15 W. Weathersfield Way
Schaumburg, IL 60193
(847) 985-9210
(847) 891-8772 FAX
Cook County

Full text can be veiwed here
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/full...Sess=&Session=
 
Old 02-13-2005, 03:09 PM   #28
montezuma
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTorres
You seem to be jumping the gun here. Has anyone defined sweater boxes as improper housing quarter yet?
Wanda, this leaves it up to individual interprepation. If a speed limit sign just said drive at a safe speed, what speed would you drive? A 90 year old may say 15 mph and an 18 year old might say 100mph....
 
Old 02-13-2005, 04:14 PM   #29
geckosunlimited
This is another glaring example of arbitrary regulation. They have absolutely no clue about proper care and handling of pets. There is always an agenda, and I know that PETA is involved and/or HSUS. How can these folks even begin to be objective with the constant pressure of these extremist groups? I sure hope the U.S. doesn't follow Norway's example.
 
Old 02-13-2005, 05:00 PM   #30
Tripple H Herps
Quote:
I sure hope the U.S. doesn't follow Norway's example.
-It's funny. Norway is a "welfare state" meaning that they give there people almost everything. Right down to money for there honey moon. Infact it was a place I was considering at one point.... However I came across the beutifule ban on reptiles and exotics they have. Not to mention the fact that becoming a citizen is near impossible. I guess the reason they give you so much crap, is to provide you a reason to actually stay there....lol From what I have heard, the ban on reptiles up there has only caused much much more problems then good. People are illegally keeping them and more are being released to die, more are being abused becouse they cant show them to anyone, and more of these owners are becoming very irresponsible. Something like that would be horrible for the animals, expecially in a place so "reptile & exotic" filled. Just imagine what it would do to so many people in FL alone. Now put in to reason the thousands of burms people would release so they don't get a fine......
Jim
 

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