Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone

Originally Posted by garweft

So Juggalo Jay, your saying that they are good to do business with if you don't give them any opportunity to rip you off..... But if you give them a chance they'll rob you blind?

I don't buy into all that "locks just keep an honest man honest" talk. An honest man wouldn't be going door to door looking for one that's unlocked.

Besides, what about the animals that are sick due to lack of proper care? How hard is it to keep a Leopard Gecko at the proper calcium levels. A spaghetti sauce lid with a little calcium in it isn't really that complicated.

First thing, I'm not in the business to let anyone rip me off. You say he is a bad guy, and I said he paid me before I could log into paypal. Unless I'm dealing face to face I take no chances.

Second thing, I never said I have to do that or they would rob me blind. Dont put words in my mouth.

Third and last thing, when your in business buying and selling there is a chance you could be buying someones junk or sick animals. I have bought sick animals before. It sounded like to me he really did not want to sell you the gecko to start with. I would do my best not to sell a sick animal. Its never good for return customers, and business. However it does happen even to the best of them!

I think you need to go back up and read post #9 from lpcad again. Pay particular attention to the last 4 paragraphs. Josh was shown a gecko that he had sold someone that had obvious problems and played it off like it was nothing. He didn't offer to buy it back, he didn't offer to replace it with a like animal, as it turns out he went ahead and gave his blessing for it to be used as a breeder.

And what does that say about them as animal dealers if somehow they bought the gecko in that condition (without noticing it), set it up and was raising it as a breeder (without noticing it), and then sold it to a loyal customer (without noticing it)? How can I trust them to notice symptoms of IBD, mites, URI, or mouthrot.

And worst of all when it was their fault that they didn't notice it, they didn't offer any type of resolution.

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

First thing, I'm not in the business to let anyone rip me off.

Nor am I (but then again, who is?). The similarities between you and I stops there though, because I would not show support to anyone who is known to rip others off. Especially if the transaction was nothing special, not even worthy of you posting a “Good Guy” thread about. I mean come on, I can only guess you and Dan traded e-mails and / or spoke on the phone, came to an agreement on the price for the animals he wanted and he paid you. Now just because he paid you prior to you logging into pay-pal doesn’t make him a good guy. Not only am I not in the business of letting anyone rip me off, I am not in the business of supporting or condoning others who rip other people off. I see that you have not posted about the person(s) that have sold you sick animals.
[quote=Juggalo Jay;670583] You say he is a bad guy, and I said he paid me before I could log into paypal. Actually you said:

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

He paid me in full, and quick!

Which would be what anyone would do if they wanted to make a purchase. Move quick or someone else may buy it before you do.

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

Unless I'm dealing face to face I take no chances.

I was dealing face to face and Dan lied right to my face. Then commenced to lie about me to others.

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

Third and last thing, when your in business buying and selling there is a chance you could be buying someones junk or sick animals. I have bought sick animals before.

Would you still show support for those people who sold you the sick animals you purchased? Say you came across a thread here on Fauna stating the people you received the sick animals from were “Good Guys”, would you not tell the others here of the sick animals you received from this person or persons? Obviously not since your 5 total posts have not made any mention of this/these person(s).

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

It sounded like to me he really did not want to sell you the gecko to start with.

What lines are you reading between? How would James have known of their “breeding stock” had Josh not told him of them? As I stated before, Josh’s knowledge of animals and their proper husbandry is very limited. In my opinion it would come as no surprise to me if both Dan and Josh were aware of the gecko’s condition and sold it anyhow. Then again when their breeding stock was on the two lower shelves in the shop proper for a few months without any heat source, not fed on a regular basis and without calcium being provided, it is not a surprise that the health of the geckos would suffer.

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

I would do my best not to sell a sick animal.

But if you weren’t up to your best would you then indeed sell a sick animal? If I were to have a sick animal I certainly would not sell it. Then again, I have very strict rules when it comes to the animals in my care. I quarantine all new arrivals regardless of whom they came from for a minimum of 3 months. Versus the way I have witnessed Chaos receiving an order on Friday and those same animals being on their table for sale the very next day at a show.

Originally Posted by Juggalo Jay

Its never good for return customers, and business. However it does happen even to the best of them!

Actually the best of them DO NOT sell sick animals. The best of them maintain their animals properly and by the off chance or mishap one does get sick or hurt they would NOT knowingly sell it to anyone. Then again, Chaos is far from the best of them in many aspects.

I was going to buy from these guys, and by buy, I mean a lot. The prices were good. It's good to see that I found out now before I endorsed in buying their animals. What places are safe to buy from these days? I emailed chaos, and they seemed alright, but clearly it's the opposite. I'm fairly new to forums, but not reptiles- and have never committed in the online buying of animals- how safe is it really? That's a side question (answers welcome via PM/email), but regardless, thanks to everyone out there making it known for people like me what is safe and what isn't.

-Brandon

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

Has anyone had problems with gift certificates? I've had an issue with them before of not returning change from a purchase with a gift certificate. I understand some stores hold that policy, but in my view somebody payed money for them, so that money should be returned or at least be given store credit after the purchase. Not a huge issue, and other than that I have not had any problems with Chaos, given I haven't had much business with them anyways.

Cj Algeri

Originally Posted by AvandisFifth187

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

sometime things slip past your better judgment?

Like..writing a check when you do not have sufficient funds in your account to cover the amount?

Thats not bad judgment. That is fraud and its a crime.

Yes it is a crime, but I was referring more to their other business practices (selling sick animals, etc.). At this point, just from what I've read and from what I've heard around, it would seem prudent to move into a place where rent was more affordable (even though I understand the stress of moving out so soon after moving in would be hell), and possibly downsizing the business temporarily so as to save up funds sufficient enough to manage a full-sized busniness again without the kinds of troubles that have been reported on this site so far. Perhaps it's just bad business dealings or misorganization, which can both be fixed, and if so let us hope that they have seen this thread and are working on such problems. I'll admit though, it would be very helpful if one of them would post up on here to explain things a bit.

Originally Posted by AvandisFifth187

It seems to me that Dan is being brought down by this Josh guy.. surely they could improve their standards of business and animal care, but sometimes things slip past your better judgment.

Has anyone had problems with gift certificates? I've had an issue with them before of not returning change from a purchase with a gift certificate. I understand some stores hold that policy, but in my view somebody payed money for them, so that money should be returned or at least be given store credit after the purchase. Not a huge issue, and other than that I have not had any problems with Chaos, given I haven't had much business with them anyways.

Cj Algeri

One would have to possess better judgment prior to something being able to slip past it for that statement to be true. Dan and Josh are two peas in a pod. I saw absolutely no difference in the way their shop was maintained during the time Josh was running the shop and when Dan took over. (During the warmer months Josh was running the shop while Dan did seasonal work. When the weather changed it was Dan’s turn to run the shop.) They both have high hopes but neither possesses the drive it takes to even maintain the animals, let alone clean the shop. The only thing I have witnessed is them wanting to turn a quick buck with minimal to no effort. And depending on which one you are talking to, it's the others fault for their problems.

Originally Posted by AvandisFifth187

Yes it is a crime, but I was referring more to their other business practices (selling sick animals, etc.). At this point, just from what I've read and from what I've heard around, it would seem prudent to move into a place where rent was more affordable (even though I understand the stress of moving out so soon after moving in would be hell), and possibly downsizing the business temporarily so as to save up funds sufficient enough to manage a full-sized busniness again without the kinds of troubles that have been reported on this site so far. Perhaps it's just bad business dealings or misorganization, which can both be fixed, and if so let us hope that they have seen this thread and are working on such problems. I'll admit though, it would be very helpful if one of them would post up on here to explain things a bit.

Actually they have moved but that is not the problem. Financial troubles aside they still do not possess the means to run this type of business. The lack of care and knowledge of the animals would still be there regardless. As for them posting here, seeing as they are both members (don’t you like the duality of meanings for that word?) here and have both logged in since this thread has been started says they either don’t care or they are embarrassed that they have been found out and think that it will go away if they ignore it long enough. Anyhow, what is there to explain? How could they (truthfully) explain or excuse the poor animal husbandry or the writing of bad checks? Their posting would only dig the hole they are in just that much deeper.

Do they do any of the reptile shows? (Ohio or Taylor MI) If so how would i ID them so that i know to walk past their table. I don't support thieves!!!

Originally Posted by reptile_jones

Do they do any of the reptile shows? (Ohio or Taylor MI) If so how would i ID them so that i know to walk past their table. I don't support thieves!!!

They used to do the shows (Cleveland, Columbus and Taylor) but not have been lately (since writing me a bad check). The last thing I heard was they were only doing the Hamburg and Indy shows since the vendors and promoters of the other shows are ganging up on them. (insert crying smilie here) Look for the sign on my table (WARNING DO NOT extend credit to or accept checks from Chaos Reptiles) at the Cleveland and Taylor shows and if they are there I will point them out to you so you can avoid them.