cathy smith - good woman post, and looking for advice

just wanted to put my recent experience with cathy smith online . . . first a bit of background - i am a high school biology teacher . . . my experience with snakes consists of taking care of a male adult ball that had been "donated" to another teacher - it was given to me to take of b/c i was the bio teacher! that was last year and i decided i was ready to tackle my own collection . . . so i did a little research and found a great price for 1.2 balls from cathy smith . . . i paypaled her the money and after some weather issues recieved the babies on 9/10 (if i remeber correctly) . . . the three were in good health and looked beautiful . . . i placed them in their enclosure with the intention of feeding them after the weekend . . . the first attempt (9/16) for all three failed with stunned adults mice (as per cathy's instructions) . . . the second attempt (9/18), the big girl and the boy ate, but the small girl refused . . . the big regurged her meal a day later . . . i increased the temp in the enclosure (hot spot went from 85 to 90) . . . the third attempt (9/23) the big girl ate a hopper and kept it down and the boy ate but the small girl refused again (i tried live first, then stunned - again as per cathy) . . . i'll try again this week this time with hoppers all around . . . through all this i have been in email contact with cathy who showed interest in my situation - here is her latest email she sent me when i asked for advice sent 9/25:

"Clifford.. I would stick with the Hopper for another week with the larger Female just to make sure she's comfortable.. As for the smallest Female.. Hopefully it's just stress from shipment and she'll eat within the next 2 weeks.. If not.. Let me know and I will either you can return her for a full refund minus shipping or send her back and I'll ship you a new one.. the first would probably be your best bet though. Just keep me up to date.. Hopefully it's just stress.

Sincerely
Cathy Smith"

she has a 7 day health guarantee and we are way past that, but look at how she is still taking care of me! unbelievable! it really isnt her problem anymore but she apparently wants to make sure her customers (and her snakes, for that matter) are happy - given some of BOI posts, this makes me a believer in the community you guys foster . . . i looked at another site and found that more often than not, "experts" arent inclined to let newbies into the party . . . not from what ive seen here though . . .

anyways . . . thank you cathy for taking care of me . . . i'll keep you up to date on the babies - hopefully this will straighten itself out without me having to put the little girl through the stress of shipping again . . . and to the rest of you, if you could direct some advice my way on how to handle this it would be welcome . . . oddly enough, the little girl who wont eat doesnt seem less active than the other two . . . i sometimes see her cruising the enclosure at night (when i'm in my room late!) . . . my students have all fallen in love with the three and constantly ask me if the little girl is ok . . .

thanks for listening
clifford nafrada

p.s. how do i post pics on here? i wanna show the three babies in their enclosure that one of my students built for them! gonna try to attach a file to see if it works . . .

the little girl that wont eat is near the left hide, the boy is on the branch and the big girl is in front of the branch

see? the little girl comes out sometimes - you think she is still stressed? just not interested in eating yet? she is thinner than the other two . . .

Most likely she is stressed and will not eat being in that cage.
She needs to be seperated from the other 2.
Set up a seperate cage for her and let her settle in for about a week. If it was stress, she should most likely eat for you.
BP's stress easily and keeping multiple snakes in the same enclosure is one of the main reasons why they go off-feed.

After looking at the pic again I have a question for you.
Is there a fold of skin on the side of the non-eater? She appears from the pic to look like she may be dehydrated as well as underweight.

Some times young ball need to be in smaller cages. I just got in an amazing young ball that would not eat, i has it in a 20 gallon tank in my office, I told the breeder and she told me the same thing i tell others in this situation, try a smaller cage. well i put him in a 30 quart tub (like i keep colubrids in) and he eat after a few ours in there. They just feel more secure, also try a small hide box, one when the ball is inside it can touch the sides when curled up, this also helps their comfort level and lowers stress as they feel more secure (you can get sm black plastic ones at almost any pet shop). So basically i agree with spj, but use a smaller tub when seperating

Hope this helps

Jon Dvoretz

P.S. nice set up

i originally had the three snakes separated and for a few days and this was the period all of them didnt eat . . . i put them in the same enclosure and the three of them would curl up together during the day . . . during the late afternoon and night they would all cruise the enclosure . . . i made sure the handling was at a minimun only to place them at or near the water bowl to make sure they knew where it was . . . i dont feed them in the big enclosure - i put each of them in separate shoe boxes with holes alone with the stunned/pk mice . . . the big girl and the boy both ate in the shoeboxes . . . the girl is a bit thin and i have soaked her (all of them separately, too) to try to hydrate them and i think they all had drinks while soaked . . . i also have observed the three of them drinking from the water bowl . . . i had the enclosure separated into two smaller enclosures (i put a board to separate the 3x2x2 into two 1.5x2x2 sections) but i couldnt get the temp gradient right . . . to tell you the truth, i think all of them have adjusted well to the enclosure as they explore it well - i've seen them all on top of the hides, mostly in the hides, cruising around the water and hanging out on the branch . . . i will try to feed again tomorrow with hoppers for the three of them . . . i actually was more concerned about the boy who seemed thinner than the other two! given the above, does anyone see anything? if the small girl doesnt eat tomorrow i will put her in her own enclosure again . . . cathy smith said that they should do fine together (when i first described their intended enclosure) so i placed them together after a few days apart . . .

again, any help would definately be appreciated - and thank you cathy, again!!

clifford nafrada

1) Great looking setup for you!

2) That thing sucks right now for the snakes!

3) They're right, SMALL Cage, 15qt sweater box tops till they're about 400-500 grams.

4) Give them each they're own cage!

5) It's take maybe a month for them to start eating.

6) Keep the temps over 80 for sure.

7) Um, that's about it.

That cage is filled with great intentions but not good for the snakes. Do what I have listed above and you'll be fine.

Good luck!!

That is a nice setup. If you don't have extra cages. You could try putting the non eater into a small rubber maid container, bout the size of a shoebox. Leave the snake in the container, inside of the cage with a dead mouse overnite. This just might work as it has for me in the past. Just don't set the entire shoebox directly over the heated side. Set 1/2 the box over the heat to give the snake a warm & cool side.
Baby snakes are very easy to stress out. Shipping,handling, people in front of the cage moving around...ect
If you can get a ten gal tank set up and cover the front of it so the snake doesn't see any movement this might help the snake settle in & calm down. Just a couple of ideas that's worked for me before.
Good Luck,
Dave Derrick @ East TN Reptiles

hi,
i recently purchased 2 pastel male ball pythons from cathy smith (chamgirl99471). i paid for them and had to have cathy keep them until weather became warm enough to ship. she fed them and kept them fat, updating me when they ate, shed, etc. once they arrived she followed up with a phone call, and in the following weeks has emailed to check on them several times. cathy is top notch.
thank you for everything.
mike mcmullen

What kind of substrate is that?