Is this site selling Accepted Certification of Good Guy Staus????

Is it an ethical business practice to allow only those who have paid a higher fee to become certified as Good Guys or, does that hint of the possible future formation of a Good Old Boys Club. That would be the kind of club wherein if you line my pockets I’ll make you look good sort of thing. You know sort of like (but no where on the same level as) the crook who pays the cops not to look their way when they do bad. Ask the cop later on and he will swear he only knows that person as a decent, hard working certified good guy. Oh no wait a minute, there is another analogy that comes to mind, and it may better address this situation: the selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church. You could only be forgiven your sins at one point in time if you paid a fee to the church. Can you imagine that, in the eyes of the Church you were only a good guy, and only certified as such, if you paid. The more you paid, the more you could get away with and still be seen as a moral person. I wonder what the families of poor people thought? Heck I wonder what God had to say about that! (I hope that one is more to the point of this discussion.)

My guess is that a lot of paying members will be praising each other in order to promote one another as certified good guys. If you pay $25 you can actually become or be accepted as a certified good guy (does that mean you are not really a certified good guy but only accepted as one in the eyes of this site). I guess that means if you have not divvied up $25 then there is no way that your business practices or moral character could be seen as certifiably good by this site on the BOI's Good Guy Certification Forum. Very odd indeed, as it seems to defeat the whole ethical standard behind the BOI, and seems opposite of how a person of good business ethics would normally be chosen as such but, that is just my opinion.

I am not looking for an argument here, but rather for a decent level headed discussion as to the dilema I see in someone having to pay to become accepted as a Certified Good Guy. I would have thought your actions, morales, business ethics would have made you a good guy and that such should have been enough to earn you that reputation and any certification that goes along with it.

What do the rest of you, who are in any form of the herp business (large or small scale) think about this?

Best regards,
Glenn B

I hadn't really thought about it since I do not have a website (yet) and post items for sale thru the various for sale sections of other website forums but you do bring up a valid point.
If only people who pay a fee can be certified, does this open the door to unscrupulous people to be able to get the certification if they pay and have buddies vote for them?
To tell you the truth paying to get the banner does seem a bit odd but since anyone can vote on your status whether they are paying members or not, should keep the process in check. If you get negative votes against you, I don't think the membership fee will allow you to keep the banner.
I think it was just set up as another perk for paying members but they are ultimately at the hands of the customers since anyone can post a negative vote against them.

Glenn, you posed some interesting points. While I've read through the requirements for the certification, I didn't come away with the same interpretation as you did.

First of all, the $10 membership fee suffices in order to apply for the certificate, and Webslave explained that immediately. Secondly, applying doesn't automatically grant it:

This will be reflected in the poll set up in your thread here and by the votes people will place in your "Trader's Ratings". If at any time, one or both of those rating vehicles drops below zero (0) and you have a negative rating, your permission to display the provided certification banner will be withdrawn and you MUST remove it from your site immediately.

Since Webslave has never shown preferential treatment in suspending/fining/banning even those people who have paid money to have banners on this site, I don't believe there's much risk of anyone looking the other way if someone does bad business just because they're a member.

The other point that must be made is that there is some sort of fee associated with any sort of value rating in any industry: Good Housekeeping Seal requires an application and fee for your product to be evaluated; the Better Business Bureau requires membership in order to display their stickers; hotels and restaurants spend quite a chunk of change to be affiliated with a AAA rating, etc. etc. I work in the supplement industry, and my company pays beaucoup bucks to maintain their certifications; not that we BUY them, we absolutely must comply with the requirements of the certifying agencies, but we must remain members in good standing in order to qualify for evaluation, and that includes membership dues.

The key to a rating system like this issued by an organization is the validity of the issuing organization...in this case, FaunaClassifieds.

I saw on the membership fee list, you can only vote in polls about Certified Good Guys oif you piad the $10 fee, and you can only be accepted as a certified good guy if you pay $25. Maybe I read it wrong, but that is sure how it looks to me, or maybe it is a misprint.

Anyone interested in participating within this program must apply to me in order to do so. In doing so, they will have to agree to the stipulations of taking part in this plan without reservation. ONLY members in the merbership groups at the Contributor level and above are eligible to take part in this program. The reason for this is simple: It is going to take a substantial chunk of time and effort on my part to manage this process. I am trying hard to come up with programs to help clean up this industry, but I have to be realistic about what my time is worth to me and how I want to apply it.

$25.00yr - status = "Contributor"
all "+" bonus options included in levels 2 thru 3
+ Avatar maxed to 160x160 pixels and 40K
+ Private messages increased to 75 and can send to 10 recipients at a time.
+ access to view and post in the Steering Committee Meeting Room Forum
+ requests to change registered user name will be honored
+ Can view member info
+ Can use custom title
+ Can edit and delete posts in the general discussion forums.
+ Upload attachments (photos) increased to 10 meg
+ profile picture maxed to 160x160 pixels and 40K

You're correct, Glenn, I apologize.

There is a very simple answer, Glenn, for this stipulation of the certification being offered only to Contributor level members and above. This is going to be a lot of work for me. Setting it up has already been work, maintaining and monitoring it is going to be work, and when the inevitable problems arise from conflicts, arguments, and fraudulent activities, just WHO do you think is going to have to try to resolve it? Do you THINK maybe that will involve WORK as well? And I should do that all for FREE too?

Quite frankly, if someone is not willing to put $25 towards being a Contributor member here to help offset the work I am going to have to do for them and this project, then I don't need them to take part, and they will certainly live a long and fruitful live, as well, without out it.

Glenn, tell me, are you just intent on spreading your "sour grapes" attitude all over this site now? Yes, we disagree on my charging money for posting rights on various sections of this site. So now do you have the intention of digging into everything you can to try to kick up more discontent, arguments, and acrimony?

Don't you have something better to do with your time? If you don't like the way I am running this site now, then just leave. What is so tough about that? What are you trying to prove here?

I do not see this as a "Good Old Boys Club" at all. Or unethical. You act like everything should be free or it is unethical!!! That is just completely wrong. Free and/or paid has nothing to do with ethics.

A persons rating will be directly affected by their business dealings. Can they get friends to lie for them? Sure they can. Just like they can when someone asks for references, just like they can get friends to lie for them on the BOI. But if a person is a unethical business person then there will be enough negative feedback via the BOI, their Trader Rating and the Certified Good Guy board to expose them for what they are. They are all nothing more than just tools to be used to help consumers and businesses alike. You were fine with these tools when they were free, but now they are all conspiracys waiting to happen. I have enough faith in my fellow community members to KNOW that any abuse of this system will exposed in time. Just like it almost always has here.

You make it sound like all of us who have paid memberships are going to run around and lie for each other. I think that is just plain wrong to even insinuate Glenn. I think you have been here a long time and damn well know that a lot of the people here would not even begin to act in that way. The majority of the people who have paid memberships thus far are people just like you Glenn, that want only the best for this site and more importantly this industry. There is no way in hell they are going to lie for someone just because they too are paid members. Like I said that is just plain wrong to even insinuate that. Maybe you are not insinuating that, but it sure reads that way to me.

Also, at every turn I see you looking for controversy and conspiracy under every stone. Yeah I am well aware that there are plenty of dirt bags in this industry, but you seem to be pointing fingers at everyone who has made a paid membership. You don't find that unethical in its own right? Persecutions based on your theorys, not based on a single thread of fact? Unethical to say the least.

Glenn, you are in law enforcement, aren't you? Do you believe in what you do? Do you believe that the laws of this nation should be enforced? Do you believe that it is ethical for you to take a pay check doing what you are doing? Should it be a free service done by all wanting to enforce the laws or not be enforced at all if a paycheck is required by those enforcers? Why should you get paid to do what is right? You could do something else, you know?

Preferential treatment my left...

Take a look at my post count.

Take a look at my miniscule trader rating.

Take a look at my rep. point.

NOW look at my warning level.

If you're actually saying that I, capitol I there, would LIE for someone else, then you've got your head in a lightless orifice.

When my site, calkings.com, goes up in the next few weeks I'll have that little banner providing the folks here find me worthy of it. I expect NO ONE to lie for me. If I found out someone was trying to "help" me by being untruthful, I'd bring it out. I suspect I am not alone in this.

It's another way for good people to say "you're good people too".

It's another way for good people to say ''you're not worthy".

I wonder if you'd make the cut glenn.

There seems to have been a bcfos type of change in you recently. Is there something in your personal life that is affecting you to the point that you're pissing in your wheaties over here? I ask in all seriousness because in the past you were a different more likable guy.

Why all the negativity?

Sammy,

You act like everything should be free or it is unethical!!! That is just completely wrong. Free and/or paid has nothing to do with ethics.

What an, in my opinion, ignorant thing to say. Ignorant of my viewpoint as to whether or not Rich should be earning money from this site by charging for things and, also ignorant of the fact that I repeatedly give donations to fund this site. No I do not think it should be a free ride at all. I do however think that one part of it should remain completely free to avoid ethical problems. You really should read all of my posts on the issue of whether or not people should pay for the use of certain areas of this site. This site has potential to make as much money for Rich as kingsnake.com does for its owner. Funny how kingsnake.com and every other herp related web site to which I have ever subscribed does not charge a fee for its forums! But then that is getting side tracked.

You make it sound like all of us who have paid memberships are going to run around and lie for each other. I think that is just plain wrong to even insinuate Glenn. I think you have been here a long time and damn well know that a lot of the people here would not even begin to act in that way.

Actually I am asking a question, hypothesizing really, something about what many people are probably asking themselves right now about this site but are too intimidated to ask. You can bet your bottom dollar that many at other sites will now point to this site and say exactly what I asked but, they will be accusatory. The hint of something improper is there, and the enemies of this site, yes it has enemies or I should say Rich does in the herp business, will try to capitalize on it. If you know I have been around a long time, then you too have probably been here long enough to realize that this likely will be true as it has repeatedly happened in the past. Such seemingly keeps away some of the big time advertisers. You should also realize that the BOI has been full of stuff going on like this, as has the Rep Points system, or at least claims of unethical behavior in those areas have been reported. THE BOI INDEED HAS HAD SEVERAL LIARS CAUGHT THEREIN SPREADING FALSE GOOD AND BAD REPORTS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SITE. Are you all of a sudden going to tell me those people, the liars in general, will be disappearing because of this new system? (Wes {capital W} you seem to be taking this personally as if I attacked you. I asked a question. You should pay attention to what I just wrote it addresses your point too.) To imagine that some will not try to take unfair advantage of this system of good guy certification is like living in a Utopian fantasy.

Rich,

As far as my working in law enforcement goes, their is little to no comparison between what you are doing here reference the good guy certification and earning money with a job. The real comparison there would be if I were to take money from an individual to say that person was legit even if he or she was the best person in the world. I do not, have not, will not ever do that.

This was not started as your employment or as a job. If you choose to change it to such then fine, earn a living from it. I agree that you should make money from this site, I simply do not agree with how you think you should make money from it. Advertisers pay for every other herp related site I have ever registered for, why not this one too? My guess is that you cannot attract enough of the advertisers for some reason. So now what do you do, if someone pays more to join up you allow them to be accepted as Certified good Guys if they can get that rating. If kingsnake.com had done that years ago, you would have been amoing the first to smash them for it and if you really take a calm moment to think about that you woill see the truth in those words.

I was not accusing anyone of any thing, not even by insinuation. I was hypothesizing that this type of set up for certification of good guys may lead many to think there is an ethical problem here. I can see a possible problem , maybe because I am subject to pretty tough ethical standards. If you don’t see the potential for a problem fine.

Someone did make a good point about this system being like a Chamber of Commerce or Good Housekeeping or something like that. I can understand that yes you do have to be a member to get this type of rating, that is all well and good and, I guess it does not raise the issue of ethics or even raise a question of it. The thing raising the question about the issue of ethics is that only members who pay more can get it. Maybe there is no problem, but I was curious to see how others would see it so I asked a tough question.

As for leaving this site, if you are suggesting that I do so, then I will. This site is open for discussion of just about everything under the sun except when it comes to tough questions about this site and its owner. To bad, I think, that you cannot see merit in merely discussing the topic at hand without trying to make it appear as if I am mudslinging or on some sort of a vendetta against you or this site. Then again, I am beginning to wonder: if others do not go your way and instead give you some serious discussion, it appears as if you think it should be the highway for them. I ask tough questions about this site because of the intellectual freedom you have allowed here, because I like this site, and because I liked you. I figured that tough questions examined and answered now, here on this site and; solutions found to possible problems maybe would help prevent bad results for this site later on. However, if my laving is what you want - fine. Any time you want to remove me from your site, please feel free to do so, that is your prerogative but, definitely not my choice. If you choose to allow me to remain here, I will post questions or topics as I see fit within the framework of the rules of this site whether or not they are easy or tough and whether or not they are about you and this site. I know kingnskae.com cannot live with that type of post; are you telling us all that this is where you have finally arrived? I hope not.

Sincerely,
Glenn B