Underground Reptiles: Sick animal inquiry?

Be an adult, If you buy a wild caught water snake.
Think of the conditions many water snakes are living in.
If you don't buy Captive bred YOU TAKE THE RISK !!
slamming the supplier is silly. Low price, lower quality.
If you test a nasty puddle at the end on a still end of a florida swamp it will be filled with issues. Mother nature takes care of sick snakes in her own way.
Hello...

Went through a lot of drama about this earlier, hope to keep it calm and fact based now. After receiving snakes from Underground Reptile that quickly displayed the lethal and untreatable Snake Fungal Disease (SFD) symptoms, I had them tested to confirm. This should be all documented here on the Board.

What is important is that while I was able to eliminate the external symptoms of the infection by providing the snakes with an extensive naturalistic enclosure that gave them ample opportunities to thermoregulate and ample UV exposure, they apparently continued to harbor the infection internally. It erupted months after external symptoms were gone and caused the death of the snake.

I have the necropsy report and lab analysis is pending publication.

Why is this important? Because as it turns out SFD is spreading like wild fire in our native snakes. Any business that is collecting wild snakes and selling them, or their babies is spreading this disease. It is extremely important that we don't continue to spread SFD. It is threatening entire populations of endangered snakes as well as captive collections.

If you have any valid questions I will be happy to provide information. But in the mean time, please do not buy animals fromany business that also sells wild caught animals!

I remember the earlier thread regarding this issue. I am not defending Underground or any other vendor selling WC, but could you post the necropsy report? I realize lab analysis is pending. Thanks in advance, your warning is heeded.

I wanted to let people know there is an important update on this issue.

As you know, SFD is a contagious, deadly disease with no known cure. When I bought the 9 neonate Nerodia floridana from a Florida wholesaler, one developed symptoms of SFD within a week of arriving and died shortly afterwards. All were kept in sanitized containers individually, but all developed symptoms of the disease within the month.

I moved the snakes into a large, natural enclosure that allowed them to feel secure, regulate their own temperature (hot spot of 115F) and a good UV light. The snakes shed often, fed well and symptoms subsided, eventually disappearing.

At this point the remaining snakes looked perfectly healthy. But the disease apparently remained active internally. About 6 months after symptoms disappeared one snake suddenly showed symptoms again and was tested positive for SFD. It dies shortly afterward.

But here is the update: Another snake died suddenly showing no external signs of SFD. It was sick one day, dead the next. The snake was placed in the fridge and brought to the Iowa State University Vet med college diagnostic lab for a necropsy. (I am checking to see how much of the preliminary report I can release here, but will at the very least verify with a moderator). The snake was essentially being eaten up internally by SFD. This was verified by Dr Allendar at U of IL with both a qPCR and grown out.

Why is this a big deal? Basically, it means that we cant trust that any healthy appearing snake isn't dying of SFD. Since SFD is now being found all over the country in wild snakes it would make me strongly question whether it is safe to buy any snake from any dealer that also sells wild caught snakes.

My recently deceased snake appeared perfectly healthy - fat and happy - for months. I'm thinking it was October to March - 6 months - that it was outwardly healthy. So even an extended quarantine of more than 6 months may not be enough to ensure your not bring a snake with a contagious, lethal disease into your collection.

And some of the snakes from the original batch are still thriving. Are they resistant? Did they somehow not contract it? We don't know. Many people have told me to euthanize these remaining snakes and sterilize everything. Butt I'm taking the risk in order to learn what I can about this disease. I've spent lots of money on the $3.00 snakes in order to do so. And will certainly spend lots more.

The infected snakes have always been maintained in a strict quarantine - a separate room of their own, nothing exchanged, nothing comes out of their enclosure ever.

Also, a note about Underground Reptiles. While I personally would not buy from them as long as they are dealing with wild caught snakes, this subject is bigger than just them. There are dozens of dealers that deal with native herps, even pet store that will sell native snakes. All should be educated about the risk and all should immediately stop selling native animals and completely sanitize their entire facility, including any equipment, boots, gloves, water bowls, enclosures, etc..

And if you are a field herper please report any snake you see with SFD symptoms. Snap a photo if you can. Don't touch it! Sanitize your hands and equipment with 20% bleach solution.

What exactly is the "update"? I'm not trying to sound snarky, I'm just not seeing what's new in this info.

Originally Posted by arex83

What exactly is the "update"? I'm not trying to sound snarky, I'm just not seeing what's new in this info.

"But here is the update: Another snake died suddenly showing no external signs of SFD. It was sick one day, dead the next."

Originally Posted by thamnophis123

[...]

At this point the remaining snakes looked perfectly healthy. But the disease apparently remained active internally. About 6 months after symptoms disappeared one snake suddenly showed symptoms again and was tested positive for SFD. It dies shortly afterward.

But here is the update: Another snake died suddenly showing no external signs of SFD. It was sick one day, dead the next. The snake was placed in the fridge and brought to the Iowa State University Vet med college diagnostic lab for a necropsy. (I am checking to see how much of the preliminary report I can release here, but will at the very least verify with a moderator). The snake was essentially being eaten up internally by SFD. This was verified by Dr Allendar at U of IL with both a qPCR and grown out.

Why is this a big deal? Basically, it means that we cant trust that any healthy appearing snake isn't dying of SFD. Since SFD is now being found all over the country in wild snakes it would make me strongly question whether it is safe to buy any snake from any dealer that also sells wild caught snakes.

My recently deceased snake appeared perfectly healthy - fat and happy - for months. I'm thinking it was October to March - 6 months - that it was outwardly healthy. So even an extended quarantine of more than 6 months may not be enough to ensure your not bring a snake with a contagious, lethal disease into your collection.

[...]

Please do post the report from the vet when you're able, I for one am extremely interested in seeing it. What an insidious disease.

Here is the preliminary report that I can share. Please don't repost it elsewhere as it is not final, and the final report is awaiting publication.

The summary is in the "Comments" at the end of the document ...

Laboratory Diagnosis:
● Multisystemic fungal granulomas
● Lung
● Liver
● Kidney
● Nematodiasis

Comments:

● Over 60% of the lung parenchyma is effaced by these granulomas. Per a phone discussion with the owner, we will pursue both fungal culture, and, if possible, qPCR for Ophidiomyces ophiodiicola .
● I did not see any indication of chronic or previous skin infection of the head.
● I think the finding of nematodes is incidental. There may have been 2 species, one in the oral cavity and one in the
stomach.
● Please correlate clinically and contact the laboratory if further testing is desired or questions arise.

I think it's an important point that you can purchase snakes that seem fine, but if they have been exposed you may find problems months later. This also means that by the time you figure it out, your entire collection may have been compromised. I have definitely become more selective about from where I allow anything inbound.

Posted here with permission from Joe, who has kept us up to date on the Facebook Snake Fungal Disease page. To summarize, all Nerodia floridana Joe purchased from Underground Reptiles are deceased. Symptoms subsided temporarily but the snakes changed their behavior and increased basking substantially. The snakes died suddenly. Possible organ failure is suspected, but no necropsy will be performed. Please read the discussion included in the screenshots for more information.

I will not be addressing questions for Joe here nor playing the middle man in conversation. This post is informational only to provide a conclusion for this thread. If you have questions for Joe, you may ask him directly on Facebook. I'm not sure he'll be back on the BOI.

This is the entire Facebook thread. I have overlapped comments so it's clear I did not modify or edit the conversation. The other folks commenting on the page work with SFD in wild snakes and are professionals in the field.