IBD disease / My ball and my boas

Originally Posted by Wilomn

I've read the whole thread, waited for a conclusion, hoping it wouldn't be this one but, fearing it would.

Let's just jump straight to saying you're a scumbag. You put names to nothing. You come here for advice and tell us that we know less than other people you have gone to because WE say what you don't want to hear while THEY tell you everyone has it.

BULLSNOT.

You don't want to lose your investment. Understandable.

You will put at risk EVERYONE of us because you are too bloody cheap to start over. Thank you eversomuch for being another scumbag who cares more about money than his fellow herpers.

I mean, just because you have to go through this, and by destroying your FEW boa could most likely prevent YOUR spreading this virus, that's no reason to do the RIGHT thing and destroy them. Is it? Why should YOU have to be the guy who loses his snakes because of a virus whose transmission is not 100% understood?

WHY? Becuase YOU HAVE IT.

I Sincerely hope I NEVER meet you at a show or in person. I don't have many boas or ball pythons but I would go OUT of my way to not only aviod ANY Contact with you but to make sure anyone else with snakes knew who and what you were and to also avoid you.

You KNOW what's right. You KNOW what's wrong. Right may be more expensive, but it's RIGHT.

Man, scumbags like you really piss me off.

Would you mind posting a picture and your name so I know who to avoid at shows?

I said it before in my previous post. how could ANYONE, in good conscience take the risk of spreading this horrid disease..

That to me sounds similar to saying something like.. " I have aids, but why cant I donate blood? so many people have it already.. everyone has to die some point.. "





yes, please please let us know more about YOU.. maybe we can save OUR animals lives.. by avoiding in the business like you, that just.. don't care..

Thanks for being one of those people that bring down this wonderful hobby.

Since this guy is relatively local, and therefore is likely to attend shows that I vend, I guess I may have to reconsider the idea of letting interested parties handle my animals. (unless, of course, he IS willing to post a picture, so the masses do not have to suffer from his ignorance & arrogance.)

Mike - I have to say that many of us saw this response coming (from you). NOBODY said that this was an isolated or rare disease. WE, the people that you have so nicely spoken down to with your statements, KNOW that it is more widespread than most people would imagine...or even care to think about. The difference is that WE know a bit more about the nature of the disease. WE understand that if infected animals are kept, the disease WILL spread. If you doubt that, you are beyond naive. Take a look at some of the threads on this subject pertaining to IBD. Read BW Smith's story in the BOI thead he posted.

It doesn't surprise me that some big breeders might say something along the lines of the comments you posted...since it is not a huge secret that some have bred infected animals and sold the offspring, thus disseminating it across the US. It is no secret, either, that some people, upon learning that they had IBD in their collection, continued to sell without a word (hopefully, they at least had a few second thoughts). It is the denial of the nature of the disease, and the lure of the almighty dollar, that will surely turn this into the adenovirus of this sector of our hobby.

I just did a search for IBD on PubMed, a repository for scientific publications, and only THREE citations were found. In one of the studies, it took 10 weeks for the appearance of inclusion bodies after a group healthy snakes were injected with IBDV. The disease has been linked with a retrovirus, but that does not mean it IS the causative agent. It is thought that it can be spread vertically from mother to offspring, through mites, and as a simple viral pathogen, although the exact route of transmission is still unclear. With that many uncertainties, why in the world would you risk spread to other snakes, whether knowingly or inadvertently??

This guys attitude is exactly why I will not buy a boa.

You have infected animals. It is fatal. It is transmittable. You are not being a responsible keeper.

You need to notify anyone who owns a snake that came into contact with your snakes and caging (the petstore, who ever you may have sold to) and put down your collection and destroy the caging.

That is the ONLY way to prevent further spread from YOUR animals.

To knowlingly have infected animals and give us an attitude and say it doesn't matter is pure BS. You are only thinking about the monetary loss you will experience and do not care about anyone elses.

The right thing to do is put down the animals and destroy the caging.

Stop saying a big breeder told you it is OK to keep these animals. Myself and others know which "big breeder" had IBD and I will not buy anything from him and I don't think anyone else would either. He played a large part in the spread of this along with a few other ethically deprived individuals.

Do the right thing NOW.

I see you still have your ads up.

You need to delete them and not sell any of the boas or cages!

If you have 10 snakes it is virtually guaranteed that 1-5 of your snakes will have IBD present. CHEAP I paid to have my tests done, have you! I am the responsible one. I know my snakes have it and I will not sell them or breed them, I will not handle someone elses snake, I will be responsible. But you have not tested your boas and anyone else who has not tested there snake is the one who is not responsible. So listen here Scum bag, if you were inteligent enough to realize that for that fact and that fact alone, someone who owns a boa and does not have evidence or knowledge that his or her snake does not have IBD then THEY, YOU are the one who is walking around these shows handling other peoples snakes, not me. Because I know, and I would never do that. SO Miss Tun, go get your check book and spend $150 per snake and get them tested until then you and anyone else who doesnt can kiss my snakes flap.

As far as letting people hold your snakes... That is my point exactly, how many people have you let hold your snakes... how many snakes, then you introduce them back into your room and the "airborne" process begins or so you think.... You think you never had an exisitng boa owner that held your snakes that did not have a snake that had IBD. Then you are greatly mistaken.

Again, I will never breed my snakes, I will never sell my snakes, I will not hold another persons snake. But for those that have not get there snakes tested then, they are the ones you have to worry about, not me!

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

The first thing I would suggest is closing down your ads for boas and caging on Fauna. If you have sold any caging or snakes listed in your ads, notify the buyers at once.

Guess he decided to ignore your advice Dennis so to avoid him spreading IBD, I replied to his ads.
He will now either have to delete them or forget about anyone wanting to purchase from him.

Actually - since I haven't brought boas to shows since before I acquired my current collection, I haven't let anybody handle them. Nor have I handled any boa that I have not purchased.

Hey Mike - here's something for you.

If something happens to you - say you perish in a car accident... and no one in your family or whoever will be responsible for your estate knows anything about IBD. They don't want or know what to do with your snakes, so they give them to a pet shop.

The pet shop has no clue about them, except that they're cool morphs.

And they get sold back into the reptile community....

THIS type of variable "what if" is why everyone is appalled at your attitude. There is no guarantee, no matter how good your intentions are at the moment, that you will be around (or will be capable of) caring for your snakes or in possession of your infected snakes forever.

Say you have to get rid of a few snakes to move or something - and you find someone who absolutely promises to take one of the boas "as a lifetime pet only". But later, they don't want the snake any longer or come on financial hardship, and for whatever other reason ignore their promise and sell the snake...

Originally Posted by mjcnj

But I will share some information from the other 2/3 of people, lets say the true experts and what they have said.

1) a high % of boas if tested would show the presence of Inclusion bodies in there system.

Name the person that told you this. It is FALSE.