So...what to do when you're told "If you breed snakes this season, I'm leaving you?"

Originally Posted by lucille

There are several different issues here, and you need to separate them and deal with them separately. The first is money. Money is one of the most common reasons couples fight. If he is anxious because of the economy and because of money, talk together and try to arrive at an understanding of what is reasonably to be spent. Tell him that your critters are like family and of course you need to feed them.

I thought maybe this was the problem because of his car problems - but I have already explained to him that due to my debts and obligations I *cannot* buy him a new car. If he needs one he has to go find one and then try and get a loan. He believes, I guess, that if I didn't have snakes I could buy him a car? I don't know.

I think maybe he is worried because some things aren't selling, but sometime, somewhere, somebody will come along and need whatever it is I am selling (I hope). It just may not be immediately. He is overlooking the fact that I have in fact sold 8+ snakes in the past 2 months, I guess, because I had to turn around and spend that money again on feeders/debt on a snake I got from a friend.

I am starting to think that he is blaming the animals for money problems as a way for him to get out of finding a better job/going back to school.

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

I thought maybe this was the problem because of his car problems - but I have already explained to him that due to my debts and obligations I *cannot* buy him a new car. If he needs one he has to go find one and then try and get a loan. He believes, I guess, that if I didn't have snakes I could buy him a car? I don't know.

This sounds like he is more interested in a sugga momma then an actual romantic relationship.... I don't know you... but I do know you deserve something better than that.

I think maybe he is worried because some things aren't selling, but sometime, somewhere, somebody will come along and need whatever it is I am selling (I hope). It just may not be immediately. He is overlooking the fact that I have in fact sold 8+ snakes in the past 2 months, I guess, because I had to turn around and spend that money again on feeders/debt on a snake I got from a friend.

I am starting to think that he is blaming the animals for money problems as a way for him to get out of finding a better job/going back to school.

If the last part is true... then your better off without him because he will suck you dry. If he is unwilling to help improve the situation.... then he needs to be in the situation by himself. IF you have to do all the work eventually ya'll will split anyway or you'll just end up hating him for his unwillingness to help the family.

I don't know you personally, so my advice may mean nothing... but if I had ever heard "my animals come first in my life, and always will", there wouldn't have been a second date. Heck, I might have cut the first one short after hearing that. I understand the mind of someone who treats animals like people, I really do... I have family members today that have unhealthy attachments to animals because of loss in their lives.

But the thing is, animals are not people... even if they *seem* like family and like they are "closer" to us than people. That's not a natural or healthy way for a human being to live. Human beings are social creatures, and require the associations of other human beings. My guess is that he didn't really think you were serious when you said animals would ALWAYS come first, and now that he's finding out it's actually true, he's realizing that he needs to see if you will ever choose him over animals... and if not, he's ready to go.

I think his need for a decision on this issue needs to be respected. If you'll never be able to put his needs before your animals, then let him go. Regardless of how he's acting now, everyone deserves to be with someone who will put their needs above everything else... that's love. Love is NOT telling someone "tough luck, I warned you about the animals..."

And maybe use this as a chance to honestly think through whether or not your animal "projects" are really appropriate right now... animals CANNOT "come first" in relationship between two humans. I LOVE my animals, but if they ever put a strain on my marriage, they would be gone. no questions. Some things really are more important than animals...

Anyway... food for thought. I'm only replying to how the situation *seems*, so if I've overstepped in my assumptions, I apologize... best of luck....

Originally Posted by Mister Internet

I don't know you personally, so my advice may mean nothing... but if I had ever heard "my animals come first in my life, and always will", there wouldn't have been a second date.

These are animals and responsibilities I have had since I was 15 years old. If he, or anybody else, didn't respect my lifelong involvement with my animals, then he never should have gotten involved with me to begin with.

Originally Posted by Mister Internet

If you'll never be able to put his needs before your animals, then let him go. Regardless of how he's acting now, everyone deserves to be with someone who will put their needs above everything else... that's love.

Again, it's not about an "unhealthy association" with animals, It's about taking care of the things that are your responsibility. My animals ARE like my children, and they are a big part of my life. Children need to be taken care of. I have raised and shown horses for years, as well as the snakes. However, my general well-being has never suffered because of them. My bills have been paid. I've never not had food. I'm not an idiot. If it came down to losing my home, you can guarantee some of my snakes that I love dearly would be up for sale. However, for my boyfriend to say "if you breed snakes, I'm leaving" because I need a car, etc... Is totally unacceptable.

Considering that he was living on a futon without any food before he moved in with me, and since he has gained 45+ lbs, has brand new clothes, endless amount of entertainment/computer/etc and someone that cooks, cleans, and does his laundry for him - I am NOT failing to address his needs. Just because I can't buy him a car, or because we aren't married and I can't send him to the dentist he wants to go to is not failing to put his needs above everything else.

Originally Posted by Mister Internet

And maybe use this as a chance to honestly think through whether or not your animal "projects" are really appropriate right now... animals CANNOT "come first" in relationship between two humans. I LOVE my animals, but if they ever put a strain on my marriage, they would be gone. no questions. Some things really are more important than animals...

My commitment to my projects with the snakes, my horses, etc - were made well known to him before we even started dating. I made sure well before he moved in that he understood my priorities and where we stood with all of it. He has gotten heavily involved in a few of the projects. He has insisted on new animals, has brought cats home to be "rescued" from his work, wanted to bring 3+ dogs home, bought more snakes himself for "his" projects, and has not been innocent in the adding more animals to the menagerie.


Sorry for being snarky, but I don't feel that people should make accusatory comments without fulling understanding the situation. If you had questions, you should ask instead of accuse and make assumptions about me?

Originally Posted by snakechaarmer

Sorry for being snarky, but I don't feel that people should make accusatory comments without fulling understanding the situation. If you had questions, you should ask instead of accuse and make assumptions about me?

I'm sorry you felt I was being accusatory simply because I didn't immediately agree with your assessment of the situation based on what you had chosen to share here. I assure you I wasn't, and I think, based on your reactions to people who were at first understanding and then were trying to get you to see two sides to this, that you were really only interested in affirmation, not our honest thoughts.

How much money to you *actually* makes from breeding projects? I know for 90% of the reptile "breeders" I know, it's basically a way to make their hobby/addiction a zero-sum game, but one would have to be incredible charitable to call it "profit" or "making money". I'm not saying that you don't make money at it, but let's say that your idea of making money off of something that takes so much of your time, and his idea of what your time together is worth don't add up... my guess would be that he sees a ton of time being spent on something that he sees as being minimally beneficial $$$-wise, and that, compounded with his own frustrations at working the job he has now are probably making his a little crazy, yes. The way to solve this is not necessarily by saying "I'm still breeding snakes, no matter what you think". It MAY be, but it might also NOT be... just think openly about it.

I will leave you to your desire to only have people respond who agree with you, but please don't discount the thoughts and experiences of those who don't automatically jump to your side of the situation... no one here seems to be an outright jerk for no reason, so everyone took time out of their day they could have used to do something else and tried to offer you a helpful perspective... that's got to count for something...

Originally Posted by Mister Internet

I'm sorry you felt I was being accusatory simply because I didn't immediately agree with your assessment of the situation based on what you had chosen to share here. I assure you I wasn't, and I think, based on your reactions to people who were at first understanding and then were trying to get you to see two sides to this, that you were really only interested in affirmation, not our honest thoughts.

How much money to you *actually* makes from breeding projects? I know for 90% of the reptile "breeders" I know, it's basically a way to make their hobby/addiction a zero-sum game, but one would have to be incredible charitable to call it "profit" or "making money". I'm not saying that you don't make money at it, but let's say that your idea of making money off of something that takes so much of your time, and his idea of what your time together is worth don't add up... my guess would be that he sees a ton of time being spent on something that he sees as being minimally beneficial $$$-wise, and that, compounded with his own frustrations at working the job he has now are probably making his a little crazy, yes. The way to solve this is not necessarily by saying "I'm still breeding snakes, no matter what you think". It MAY be, but it might also NOT be... just think openly about it.

I will leave you to your desire to only have people respond who agree with you, but please don't discount the thoughts and experiences of those who don't automatically jump to your side of the situation... no one here seems to be an outright jerk for no reason, so everyone took time out of their day they could have used to do something else and tried to offer you a helpful perspective... that's got to count for something...

Wow. Way to still make assumptions about people, there. And if people didn't want to take time out of their day to read a thread on a forum, they didn't have to? A number of people brought a few interesting perspectives to think about, which is fantastic - which would be great to discuss IF commuication was, you know, existent.

Breeding reptiles isn't about money, to me. It's about something that makes me happy. If I make money along the way, then so be it. As far as I knew, he *used* to feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Mister Internet

I LOVE my animals, but if they ever put a strain on my marriage, they would be gone.

Tom, I understand what you are saying, and I admire the way you put your spouse first (do you have a brother?)

By the same token though, I am thinking that your wife, absent some very compelling reason and knowing how you love your critters, would not ask you to make a choice.

Here, the guy in question has been showered with clothes, gifts, and so on, but home repairs and car issues are making a temporary inroad on finances.

My point of view which of course does not have to be yours, is that a tight budget with the critters staying might make for a stronger relationship than the critters going and a down payment on a car.

I know that my critters have gone through tough times with me and the kids never thought to ask that I sell them. I do put my kids first, if there was some kind of all or nothing choice they would be #1, but really, I do not think that the fact pattern here supports such a drastic choice and that the bf would frame it that way is an issue that needs clarification between the couple of why he framed it that way.

Originally Posted by lucille

By the same token though, I am thinking that your wife, absent some very compelling reason and knowing how you love your critters, would not ask you to make a choice.

This. Very much THIS.

Originally Posted by lucille

I know that my critters have gone through tough times with me and the kids never thought to ask that I sell them. I do put my kids first, if there was some kind of all or nothing choice they would be #1, but really, I do not think that the fact pattern here supports such a drastic choice and that the bf would frame it that way is an issue that needs clarification between the couple of why he framed it that way.

From my own experiences... I gave up my speed boat and alot of other stuff to try and make a family with my ex fiance and her son. Guess what... she's gone and so is all the stuff that I once loved. From that point on I decided not to change who I was becuase.... At least I know my animals will still be here if someone decides to leave.

Some folks may think Im wrong for thinking that way... but the way I currently look at it is.... if you are into what I am into.. then that means we have even more in common and there is a greater chance the relationship will work.

Oh how I wish I had my speed boat back.

Tell him to get a better job (or any job if he doesn't have one), and to stop telling you what to do with your money. Don't buy him a car and tell him he needs to start helping with bills.

Don't be scared to lose someone who is unwilling to contribute to you both having a life you both enjoy.