Shipping Questions.... spam_UPS/USPS/ - Page 2

09-21-2002, 09:55 AM

Both Airborne Express and UPS clearly state that they do not accept live snake shipments. Both companies know live reptiles, snakes included, are being shipped through them (scanning "suspicious" packages is a standard practice after 9/11). What this is telling me is that they don't want to be responsible for the shipment if something happens (e.g. a snake escapes) but they still want your business.

Shipping via air cargo is prohibitive for the average herp enthusiast, charges are approxiamtely $80. A $80 dollar reptile suddenly doubles it's price once it is shipped. Not all the people that start in this hobby are willing to pay that much for shipping.

Recognized breeders (that are verified shippers with airlines) will still benefit in the medium and long term from other honest, smaller scale businesses that use less expensive means of transportation (after all they are among their customers). Thousands of herps (and dollars) are moved per year, generating business for the carriers as well as enthusiasm among new herp fans. They might not buy their first snake from large breeders, but that might be their next step.

In short IMHO we have to look at the big picture. If shipping via AE or UPS was to be completely banned, I believe this might have a negative impact on the sales of those that are verified shippers with airlines. There is room for both.

Best regards,

09-21-2002, 11:57 AM

U.S.P.S. doe sit i know for a fact!!!
As does ups they may have thought it was a snake or something.......the post office does not allow snakes to be shipped and the same for turtles.
Hope this helps.

09-21-2002, 12:57 PM

I ship almost exclusively thru Airborne Express lately.  I am certain my local manager at the terminal knows exactly what I am shipping, but since I do not insure the packages, and take this burden on my own shoulders, I do not believe he cares a whole lot.  From what the driver says, I believe I am the largest shipper using Airborne in my area.  Of course, if you saw where I am located, that would not be hard to imagine.   <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

Quite frankly, if I lost my capability of shipping door to door, my business would drop off so dramatically that it would likely put me out of business.  Most people just do not want the hassles of running out to the airport any hour of the day or night to pick up their animals.  Some people live 3 or more hours away from the nearest airport.  So not only are you tacking in $80 for shipping, you are also adding hours driving to the airport and back.  What does a full tank of gasoline cost these days?  What is your time worth to you?

I think a lot hinges on the local managers of whatever shipper you try to use.  And I have learned that you do NOT take the packages to the terminal.  You have a driver pick them up during his/her regular run.  That way, you bypass a whole bunch of questions.

Am I doing this illegally?  Beats me.  But if it is a crime, please show me the victim and I will apologize.  Is it violating a company policy?  Yes, I believe so, but I don't give a rat's patootie about their policies.  What I am doing harms absolutely no one.  To be quite honest, as long as what I am shipping is not dangerous in the least, it really is not anyone's business, even the shipping company's, what I put in that box.

And to be quite frank about it, if Airborne ever does shut me down and I have no recourse to continue my business, I will pursue legal channels to have them reassess their blatantly prejudicial and damaging policy.  Their regulation has no basis of fact or reasonableness and would truthfully be contributing to the detriment of an entire industry.  Sure all of the carriers would be guilty of the same charge, but a class action suit from everyone in this industry against the smaller of the big three commercial shippers would be the way to go.  And believe me, the other two would be paying attention to this issue, big time.

I think the herp industry is big enough to have some clout with these people.  Of course, whether or not everyone could walk in lock step with everyone else on ANY issue, is another situation entirely.

09-21-2002, 01:44 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most people just do not want the hassles of running out to the airport any hour of the day or night to pick up their animals.  Some people live 3 or more hours away from the nearest airport.  So not only are you tacking in $80 for shipping, you are also adding hours driving to the airport and back.  What does a full tank of gasoline cost these days?  What is your time worth to you?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

A week ago I had an 800 g snake shipped air cargo for a total of $80 (ouch&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>. Everything went great with the shipment, but I drove 130 miles round trip and spent a total of three hours between driving and the picking of the snake at the local airport.

The "cherry on top of the cake" was that due to a mistake, the billing charges came out to be $200 instead of the $80 (triple ouch!&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>! The decision was either paying in full at the counter and claim later, or leave the snake (which was already paid for) at the airport until the misunderstanding was solved. Well, you might guess what my decision was.

Hopefully this is being taken care off as I write this, although so far I have heard nothing about it.

Best regards,

09-28-2002, 10:02 PM

This is an update of my previous post. We are both (buyer and seller) stuck (amicably) in who is responsible for what and can't seem to reach an agreement.

If possible I would like this forum to act as mediator, and give us at least 10 opinions on this subject matter. One can be right, the other wrong or then again maybe we are both at fault. Your unbiased opinion will be highly valued.

Here is the story. I recently purchased an 800 g snake (the size/weight matters, we are not talking of a 10 footer here).

The airline in origin quoted the seller $70 for shipping charges (reasonable) and he in turn provided me with that quotation. We closed the deal on that understanding. The money order for the snake was sent and I was supposed to pay for the shipping charges upon arrival.

When the snake was shipped, the airline at the counter in origin charged $200 instead ($199.84 but I'm rounding figures up for sake of simplicity). The snake was shipped anyways and arrived in time.

In order to pick-up the snake at the local airport I had to pay the $200 and claim later.

After e-mailing the seller to inform him I had been overcharged he provided me with a phone number so I could take care of the problem.

After a week of personally tracking the mistake, the airline recalculated costs, and told me shipping charges were $122 and not $70. In this difference there is a $35 dollar charge for insurance purposes included. As a buyer am I supposed to pay for insurance for the snake too?

In short I am only going to be refunded $78 out of the original $200. The seller says that I am responsible for taking care of the $52 difference.

I would appreciate opinions of this forum as we can't come to an agreement by ourselves.

Thanks,

10-28-2002, 12:03 AM

Okay
shipping snakes through the carriers is just against company policy.

But what if the snake in question is venomous?
Is it treated the same way?
Is it still just against company policy?
or
Is there a law that states ALL VENOMOUS should be shipped through the airlines?

10-28-2002, 12:58 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(e) The shipper shall individually pack venomous reptiles in
transparent mesh bags closed by tieing the bag opening into a knot and
place those bags in styrofoam primary enclosures which the shipper
shall then place within a wooden primary enclosure. The shipper shall
clearly label both of the primary enclosures with ``VENOMOUS'' or
``POISONOUS,'' including the number of enclosed animals, their common
name, scientific name, and antivenin type required to treat bites by
the species, next to the ``LIVE ANIMAL'' and ``THIS WAY UP'' labels.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ritchie,

The quote above came from the DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR Fish and Wildlife Service 50 CFR Part 14RIN 1018-AD98.

Just imagine going to the Airborne or UPS counter with a box labeled like that. I don't think you'll make it past the front door.

Regards,

11-05-2002, 09:14 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rpandht @ Sep. 20 2002,21:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I tried to ship today via UPS from a Box IT... spam_The package was labeled "Live Harmless Geckos" and was turned down by the store manager after talking to UPS. spam_They said they did not ship live animals. spam_I thought it was ok to ship harmless reptiles via UPS, not sure about snakes, but there where just leopard geckos.

Also is it legal to ship geckos via USPS? Or is there a new provision making it illegal?

If no one will ship out animals how is the industry going to function? spam_

I normally ship USPS... but they couldn't guarantee overnight delivery to this particular location and that is why I went to Box It.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I also had the same problem with USPS yesterday. I was to ship some beardies and they told me that it would not get there today so, I did not ship them. I then went to my local Pack & Parcel and asked them if I could ship them UPS from there. He called UPS and they told him they did not ship live animals. It wasn't until I told him and UPS that I receive live animals all the time from UPS that they did some checking and found out that they (UPS) do ship them. I had to fill out a form they faxed to me and I am still waiting for a reply from them. My UPS rep. said she would call me first thing this morning as soon as she heard something.

I was using USPS and quickly lost faith in them when I shipped 5 beardies out and they lost them for 2 days and then yesterday when they couldn't ship them overnight. I am hoping UPS approves me for an account with them. Would make things a whole lot easier. As far as them(USPS) shipping gecko's, they should do it. I have the publication's that the post office gave me regarding reptiles and them (USPS) shipping them.
Here is the info that I received from USPS on shipping them:

Small Cold-Blooded
Animals
3.2
Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals (except snakes and turtles) that do not
require food or water or attention during handling in the mail and that do not create
sanitary problems or obnoxious odors are mailable (e.g., baby alligators and
caimans not more than 20 inches long, bloodworms, earthworms, mealworms,
salamanders, leeches, lizards, snails, and tadpoles).

Packaging
3.10
Any mailing container used for mailable animals must be made of at least
275-pound test, double wall, corrugated, weather-resistant fiberboard (W5c) or
equivalent and must be adequately ventilated. The container must be constructed
to prevent escape of the animals while in the mail and to preclude the container
and its contents from being crushed in normal handling. The outside of the
container must include a return address and a description of the contents. A
container marked “If Undeliverable, Abandon” is not accepted.

I could not find the other document on USPS website that they had given me it is marked 526.6 Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail pg.86 Publication 52.

Hope this helps a little.

Vicki Monserrate

11-05-2002, 05:15 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (The Monserrate's @ Nov. 05 2002,09:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My UPS rep. said she would call me first thing this morning as soon as she heard something.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I was approved today to ship beardies through UPS! And, it was a lot less painful to be approved than I was anticipating. As soon as I got the approval, I got online, scheduled a pick up and packed my box up. The UPS truck came within 20 minutes of the scheduled pick up time and I didn't have to leave the house! I should have done this sooner. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

Vicki Monserrate

11-05-2002, 07:42 PM

Ok, I have read this whole thread, but going back and forth I got lost.  If my question was already answered I would appreciate it if someone (who knows) would answer it again.
1.  How do you become an "approved" shipper with UPS?
2.  Does this include NON VEN. snakes?

Thanks,
Brian Oakley


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