Wes Trowbridge (Catfish44) and Jess Trowbridge

On 09-27-2014 I got an email notice from PayPal stating that someone had filed a claim against me for an unauthorized transaction from their account:

Subject: We're investigating a payment reversal (Case ID # PP-003-431-038-141)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 20:50:57 -0700
From: service@paypal.com
To: payments@fxxxxcxxxxxxxxxs.com


Hello FaunaClassifieds L.L.C.,

An unauthorized account activity claim was recently filed against the
following transaction.


Buyer's name: Jess Trowbridge
Buyer's email: catfish44_kc2000@yahoo.com
Transaction ID: 3W430470RG159084D

Transaction date: Jul 29, 2014
Transaction amount: $25.00 USD
Your transaction ID: 6CJ20247PG265302M
Case number: PP-003-431-038-141


We need additional information from you within the next 7 days. Please log
in to your PayPal account and go to the Resolution Center to see the
details of this case. There, you can enter any information regarding this
case that will help us fight the reversal on your behalf.

Thanks,
PayPal

Hmm, well here we go again, I thought. Perhaps some of you remember the thread I posted in the Feedback Forum about this issue -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=492383

Double hmm, that name in the complaint sounded quite familiar to me. Well at least the last name (Trowbridge) and part of the email address (catfish44). So I checked back through a recent thread I had posted that I thought I remembered seeing that name in, and sure enough, it looked like I had a match -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=497656

From one or more comments made in that above mentioned thread, it appeared to me that this Wes Trowbridge had an apparent chip on his shoulder about me, this site, or both. And I also presumed that more than likely he read over that above mentioned thread about these bogus PayPal claims, and in my opinion this claim was his idea of a good way to try to needle me. So, that's how I interpreted this situation and reacted accordingly. As such I presume he thought I was kidding about his taking such an action resulting in his being posted in the Board of Inquiry. For the record, I did give him 24 hours to make sure that I got verification in my account of the withdrawal of the complaint, after he stated that he had done so. Since PayPal is sometimes not the most responsive company in the world to get things done, I let that time limit extend to a full 72 hours instead. Just to be fair and give some benefit of the doubt. But as of this moment, the claim still shows as being open and active in my PayPal account, and PayPal has not responded to my requests to verify that Wes Trowbridge had withdrawn the claim as he has stated to me.

For the record, Mr. Trowbridge paid for a Contributor level membership on 07-29-2013 and apparently selected the option that existed at that time to set up a recurring automated yearly payment through PayPal. So on 07-29-2014 this automated payment option that he selected was initiated, and is apparently the source of his complaint to PayPal. As is indicated in one or more of the PMs below, Mr. Trowbridge was made aware of this issue by reading about it on this site, and it's a pretty safe bet, in my opinion, that he became aware of this issue by reading the thread I authored ABOUT this issue. Of particular interest is why it took him nearly 2 months to discover this issue when most certainly he got an email notification of the automated payment when it took place, and quite likely he was aware of his surroundings while here to note that he was STILL a contributing member 2 months after the first yearly period had expired. The medallion under his member name plus his member name being bolded is pretty hard to miss.

Please note that I am including "Jess Trowbridge" in this thread merely because that name is on the PayPal payment and complaint record. From what I can determine, there are two persons named "Jess Trowbridge" related to Wes Trowbridge. I believe one is his father and the other his brother. Why Wes Trowbridge chose to not use his own PayPal account (if he actually has one) for the payment here is not really my concern, but it is unfortunate that this choice he made (on more than one level) has now involved one of his family members in his apparent fraudulent claim against me via PayPal.

Anyway, on with the actual correspondence. Most of the conversation took place via private messages, so they will be posted here first:

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 12:18 AM} Yeah, you've got a lot of nerve hanging around on this site after filing a fraudulent claim with PayPal. Not sure what your problem is, but you either withdraw it, or you become listed as a BAD GUY on the Board of Inquiry for your fraudulent claim against me.

You know your claim is a bald faced lie. And as far as I am concerned, this will be the basis of my experience with you to justify my claim for you being someone that people should avoid doing business with.

So, ball is in your court. Is the $25 really worth that to you?

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 12:43 AM} No sir it's not fraudulent, it wasn't till I saw here that peoples paypal was being charged when the person didn't wanna be part of this any longer. It was then that I went and checked both my paypals and found your charge on one of them. I'm not saying your a bad guy Rich how else am I suppose to get my money back? Seeing how you've avoided me I was fairly certain that you would just criticize me and not give it back or just ignore me. So let me get this straight either I close an honest dispute or you bad mouth me? That's not right rich even for you.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 01:16 AM} Nope, I am not avoiding you. My attorney advises me about what issues I should address publicly concerning the issue of my trademark and which I should not when there is the possibility of litigation. Surely you have spoken to attorneys before? Why bother paying them if you don't follow their instructions?

Sorry, but it's just not possible for me to take funds from your account without your approval. So it is not an "honest" dispute. When you signed up for the Contributor level membership, you obviously selected the option to have an automated subscription set up in PayPal for renewals. YOU selected that, not me.

I'm guessing you have already seen this thread in the Feedback Forum, but perhaps you need to read it again. -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=492383

I'm guessing when you say you "saw here" about this that you mean that above mentioned thread. So you obviously knew the risks involved filing a claim.

Did you TRY to email or PM me before filing the PayPal claim? Wouldn't that have been the logical course to take?

Please don't play games with me. You've obviously got a bug up your butt about this site, me, or both. Personally, I just don't care. But when you make a false accusation about me to PayPal, well, if you want to bump heads, we CAN bump heads.

So that's the deal, then. Withdraw the fraudulent claim and I will refund your money and you can be on your way, or I rebut your claim with my own claim on The Board of Inquiry that you are defrauding me with your accusation. It's pretty cut and dried. Sorry, but you are just not going to convince me that you don't know exactly what you are doing with this. You just are not going to convince me that you just now noticed that you have had a second year Contributor level membership since 07-29 or didn't get a notice about that automated payment when it took place. Nor am I going to believe that you don't monitor your PayPal account at all. So if that is the game you want to play, then so be it.

And you know what you can do with that smarmy "even for you" crack.

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 07:34 AM} I'm more than happy to withdraw the claim rich. But not because of your half ass threats or any other reason than to give you the benefit of the doubt. I hope you prove me wrong man. Now what is your decision on my signature since I have your ear for the moment.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 12:28 PM} OK. As soon as I get the notice that the claim has been cancelled, I will refund your money.

As for this signature issue you mention, I had nothing to do with that. If I remember correctly, Harald didn't care for what you had provided there. Sometimes my mods are even more protective of this site than I am. That's not a bad thing, I suppose.

There were no "threats". I detailed to you what was going to happen as a result of your action. This was also mentioned in the thread I referenced that you are certainly well aware of.

Now that I have YOUR ear, what did I do to put such a large chip on your shoulder? You act like I pissed in your bowl of cheerios or something.

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 02:07 PM} Well harald said he wanted to talk to you so I figured you would want to talk about it. Rich the only reason I advocate using other feedback outlets is because of the popularity contest your boi has become. There is a clear double standard and yet the key selling point of it is a fair place to voice your experiences. I have tried to participate and no matter what I say is wrong. If I say I agree with everybody else then I'm an ass kisser but if my opinion differs at all then I'm a stupid troll that is in cahoots with said offender. I only advocate using a non-bias system which happens to be a separate site. I wish this boi was moderated equally as the classifieds are a great system and valued service. Despite what you think I like this site it's a helpful and good classified system but the boi is far from ideal much less ok.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 04:33 PM} So, you believe that the Board Of Inquiry should be more heavily moderated, and that would make it more fair than just allowing everyone to have their say? You believe that the moderators should have a heavier hand in what is allowed to be said, and allowed or not by whomever they deem worthy? How would that make it more fair? Not to mention that running the forum in such a manner opens up the moderation team to some substantial legal liabilities. I trust you have discussed your proposed methodology with a good intellectual properties attorney. I certainly did, and the way I am running the site is exactly as I was advised as being the safest and most fair method to do so.

So one or more people are "picking" on you, and that makes the design flawed? A "double standard"? Perhaps you need to step back and analyze if perhaps your delivery of your messages needs some refinement. It may come as a shock to realize that you may sometimes be at fault. Lord knows I've looked back at past discussions I have been involved in and thought I could have handled it a little bit better than I did. It's that hindsight thing.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with your assessment. The Board of Inquiry IS fair precisely because of the way it is run. If one or more people get a bit carried away, that is going to be expected precisely because of the topic matter being discussed. That is going to be the cost of running the forum in an even handed manner, and not slapping down members if they go a bit overboard, but not so much as to be in violation of the rules. Seriously, you would run a forum in such a manner to judge what is and what is not, and who and who is not, worthy of posting there?

From what I have heard, and admittedly it is third party information, that one or more of the copycat groups on Facebook have acted in rather biased manners by the methods employed to filter participation there. And that is more fair that what I am doing? Allowing moderators or even admins to delete or block content because they may personally disagree with what someone is saying? That personal friends get protected. And that would be a better methodolgy?

Seriously, if you have not already, you really need to speak to an attorney about what you are doing. You WILL get lawsuit threats demanding something be removed. Once you capitulate, then what you are doing is then completely worthless. If someone notices something was deleted, what ELSE has been deleted? Is what they are reading the COMPLETE story or are they only getting the filtered and sanitized version?

ONLY if you are running your page or group in a manner that you know would hold up in court when you are defending yourself from a lawsuit will you be able to stare down such threats without losing sleep at night. Do you think you can do that? Defending yourself from even a frivolous and baseless lawsuit will cost you a minimum of $20K. Can you afford that? Is what you are doing earning enough income to pay such an expense? Do you even have any idea of the number of lawsuit threats I have gotten over the years running this thing? I CAN afford to defend myself. When I first started this thing, and I wasn't earning a dime off of it, no I would not, and I was just lucky that no one knew that. I would not have been willing to shell out that kind of money for anyone. Now it is a BUSINESS that I feel worthwhile to defend.

Anyway, I am not running the forum the way I am simply based on a simply a whim and a fancy. I tried a lot of different ways, and spent a good bit of money getting solid legal advice. So I am sorry if it does not fit what you think would be the best way, but all things considered, it actually is. Again, discuss this with an attorney if you have your own doubts. It's your neck you will be sticking out.

Anyway, your accusation of the forum being biased, is in my opinion WAY off base. Biased to whom? How can it be when it is being run like it is with every registered member being able to post what they want there that is within the minimal guidelines of the rules I have set up. No, I don't allow profanity there. No I don't allow racial and otherwise prejudicial remarks. But even then, they can STILL be posted there, as the infraction system is an "after the fact" system designed to prevent future occurrences, as needed, if a threshold is reached. So how can that be biased? Seriously, do you know what the term "biased" even means to use it in the manner that you are?

Personally, I believe that one or more people hurt your feelings in the Board Of Inquiry and you are lashing out at the forum (and me) as a result. Sorry, but yes, members here can and will hurt others' feelings now and again. Comes with the territory. People are discussing their livelihoods and passions, so it would be ludicrous to even imagine that the discussions won't get heated and personal at times. There are some people here who absolutely hate scammers with a passion. What would you expect from such people?

Anyway, enough, I'm just rambling. I presume that you are going to do as you say and cancel the claim with PayPal. And as such, they have already put a hold on that $25, so in effect you have not now paid for your Contributor level membership. Since I'm going to be refunding that money just as soon as I receive notice of the claim cancellation, then I presume you have no need to retain the trappings of that paid membership and you have no qualms about me removing it now.

Anyway, hope that explains my position a little bit better.

Later,

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 04:50 PM} Rich first off the claim was cancelled last night and you know that. Second I don't mind you taking any of my "privileges" away as I've made it abundantly clear. Now moving on you didn't read a word I said did you? If you had you would know I wasn't recommending more moderation I was saying you and your "moderators" need to look at other peoples opinions and points of view rather than sit around with your ears plugged. I'm not scared of you rich if you had a case against me you would've already went ahead with it as that is your MO. You wanna sit and try to lecture me with your I'm the owner so I'm always right BS but fortunately I've dealt with a dozen of your type before. Anyway since you're simply trying to bait me and have probably stopped reading by now I'll just take my money and you can keep your advice and privileges.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 05:50 PM} No, I DON'T know you cancelled it. I have not received any notification from PayPal. Your PM is the only evidence I have so far. So with your lousy and vindictive attitude you think I should just trust you and your word? Fat chance of that happening.

So I and my moderators need to listen to YOU, I suppose? YOUR opinions and YOUR points of view should weigh heavily in my decision about how to run this site and how they enforce my rules? And your expertise is what, pray tell? Sorry, but I certainly see no evidence whatsoever that you have any credible experience to think I need to listen to your advice about how I run my site.

Case against you? What the hell are you raving about? I gave you an ultimatum. Cancel the bogus claim you made or you go up on the Board of Inquiry. How difficult was that for you to understand? Can't get much more black and white than that.

Look, I'm sorry that you are so sensitive that someone here hurt your tender feelings. But take a shot at growing up a bit and maybe some maturity will serve you well. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you want. And not everyone is going to like you and treat you with the kid gloves you so obviously need.

Seriously, fella, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder about me and my site, so then just don't hang around where I am. Which is HERE. Get it? I'm not coming to where you hang out, you are coming to where I hang out. You certainly don't need to be here, and I certainly don't need you here. So make us both happy and skeedaddle. Life will be much better for the both of us afterwards, don't you think?

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 05:59 PM} No need to get snarky rich I didn't once say you or any of your mods need to listen to me. No rich I've decided I like it here so unless you wanna erase me I think I'll hang around for a bit. Geez rich calm down no need to get your feelings hurt I simply said I don't want your advice or privileges. Lol

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 05:59 PM} I just checked my PayPal account and there has been no cancellation as you have claimed.

Here's a screen shot I took just a few moments ago:



Nice try, though.


Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 06:16 PM} Nice try buddy mine says no cases pending but I appreciate the effort.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 06:29 PM} It doesn't matter to me what you say you see in PayPal. What counts is what I see in my account. Sorry, but I have absolutely no reason to believe you. I fully believe you did this maliciously from the start.

I'll give you 24 hours to get this resolved or you go up on the Board Of Inquiry for filing a fraudulent claim with PayPal against me.

Rich Z.

===============================================

Originally Posted by Catfish44

{09-28-2014 06:38 PM} I'll give you 12 hrs to get my money back then I'm to your boi and every other BOI and forum I can find. This is BS rich I gave you the benefit of the doubt and now you're gonna screw me over?! I knew I shouldn't trust you.

===============================================

Originally Posted by WebSlave

{09-28-2014 06:52 PM} I told you the terms. Screw you over? How is that? YOU signed up for the automated subscription, did you not? Please show me where I twisted your arm to make that selection. Speaking of which, you know my PayPal account name, go ahead and TRY to withdraw money from my account without my prior approval like you are claiming I did to you. You had the second year of the Contributor membership since 07-29 and now you suddenly want a FULL REFUND back nearly two months later? Who is defrauding who here?

Trust? You are saying that you initiated the claim cancellation, but it does not show up in my account. Where do you think trust should be applied in this? You maliciously filed that claim after reading that thread I posted about it. This was all done by you just to needle me. Sorry, but I'm just not a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy. If you think your feelings got hurt before on the Board of Inquiry by merely being a participant, go ahead and post your frivolous claim there. That should be real fun for you.

So don't even bother waiting 12 hours, because I have already stated my terms, and they are set in concrete. You chose this battle, fella. I am more than up to the task. Withdraw the bogus PayPal claim you made and I'll refund your money. Period. I am sorry, but I can't make it any simpler for you to understand.

Rich Z.

A screenshot of the detail page for the dispute:

Here is a transcript of the email conversations :

=================================

On 9/28/2014 12:04 AM, WebSlave wrote:
> Seriously?
>
> You are accusing me of fraud? That is a lie and you know it. Not sure what your game is, but if you want to find yourself a bad guy on the Board Of Inquiry, then so be it.
>
> Rich Z.

=================================

On 9/28/2014 7:27 PM, wes trowbridge wrote:
> Ok here's your evidence. My claim wasn't bogus and I could say the same to you rich.

=================================

On 9/28/2014 11:28 PM, WebSlave wrote:
> Sorry, but my account still shows this as an open case. And that is what I have to use as a reference. I've seen far too many people forge documents for me to accept anyone's word. Especially, all things considered, yours.
>
> It's up to you to make sure that PayPal updates MY account if you have cancelled your claim against me. Until MY account states that this is so, it's really only your word I have to go by.
>
> As for MY claim being bogus, how so? I don't want to put you on the Board Of Inquiry. It's just going to be another hassle I have to deal with. I only will do that if the situation forces my hand. You put me into this position. So it is up to you to get me out of it.
>
> Rich Z.

=================================

On 9/29/2014 10:40 AM, wes trowbridge wrote:
> No rich it's not my responsibility to fix your mistakes and/or problems. You're a grown man start acting like one. I'm not taking part in any of your games anymore rich if I don't have my money by the end of the day I'll just reopen the case if possible. If not I've lost $25 on trusting the wrong person. Honestly I really hoped you'd prove me wrong rich but here I sit still getting screwed out of my money. Take it to your boi rich everybody knows it's a bogus feedback page anyway and with any research on your site can see you're using any excuse to "try to teach me a lesson". Lesson learned rich dont trust somebody that has a history scamming and threatening lawsuits against people. Good luck in your endeavors rich May god have mercy on your soul.

=================================

On 9/29/2014 12:10 PM, WebSlave wrote:
> Suit yourself. You read that thread on my site about this and thought you would file a claim just to needle me. You know it wasn't anything done fraudulently but yet you are accusing me of fraud on PayPal. I just checked my PayPal account and it still shows your fraudulent claim as being open. So, quite frankly, until proven otherwise I believe you are lying to me about your cancelling it.
>
> If you ever get around to talking to an attorney, and based on what I see from you, you probably will have to sooner or later, you might want to see a psychologist about your anger and paranoia issues too. You have some severe issues, fella.
>
> Rich Z.

=================================

As further evidence that the claim was not, in fact, withdrawn by Mr. Trowbridge, I got this very recent email from PayPal:

On 9/30/2014 11:50 PM, service@paypal.com wrote:
> Hello FaunaClassifieds L.L.C.,
>
> Recently we notified you that an unauthorized activity claim had been filed
> against a transaction you received. You have four more calendar days to
> respond to our request for additional information. After that, we will
> continue our investigation without your input.
>
> As a reminder, we are currently investigating the following transaction:
>
>
> Buyer's name: Jess Trowbridge
> Buyer's email: catfish44_kc2000@yahoo.com
> Transaction ID: 3W430470RG159084D
>
> Transaction date: Jul 29, 2014
> Transaction amount: $25.00 USD
> Your transaction ID: 6CJ20247PG265302M
> Case number: PP-003-431-038-141
>
>
> Please log in to your PayPal account at https://www.paypal.com and go to
> the Resolution Center to view the details of this case and provide the
> information we need from you.
>
>
> Thanks for your cooperation through this process. We are continuing to work
> to ensure that PayPal is secure for all users.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> PayPal
> Protection Services Department

Now why would PayPal send me that notice if the claim had really been cancelled?

I have also specifically contacted PayPal and asked them if the claim had been cancelled by Mr. Trowbridge, as he has claimed, and as of this moment have not heard anything from them. But I am guessing that the email shown above pretty much answers that question.

Originally Posted by Catfish44
{09-28-2014 12:43 AM} No sir it's not fraudulent, it wasn't till I saw here that peoples paypal was being charged when the person didn't wanna be part of this any longer. It was then that I went and checked both my paypals and found your charge on one of them...

So, his big move was to simply take a screenshot of the PP account that he didn't use for the payment and subsequent charge back, and offer that up as his evidence that the dispute was withdrawn? Wow, F'n brilliant. Clearly the work of a master strategist.

He paid you for a service that you did provide, as contracted. With that in mind, why even offer the refund? In doing so, it seems like you may be setting the stage for others to decide that they can just as easily strong-arm you into a refund by simply filing a PP dispute whenever they feel slighted. I'd let him sleep in the bed that he made, as you've done with others over the years.

What is it they call lying liars that lie? Trolls? I am amused mr. trollbridge. It's not the same fun for you here, where nothing is deleted, as it is over on your pals page, is it? It's a shame that backbone of yours is missing. Maybe it's with the chip on your shoulder. I'm sure they're both crying to some poor facebook ninny somewhere. Remember those French guys in Monty Python's Holy Grail and what they said about wafting gasses in general directions? I to you, mr. trowbridge, I to you.

I speak from MUCH experience here. What Rich has said is true. While he and I have not always seen eye to eye, he's always been a straight shooter. Your sites need some calibration, they are wonkier than a country road.

He's been badmouthing this site continuously on other sites since before this happened.

Originally Posted by Bobby Douglass

He's been badmouthing this site continuously on other sites since before this happened.

Yes he has. Not just the site, but the members too. Apparently, according to his FB comments, members here are: "jokers at Fauna","leave the goofballs of Fauna alone they are nothing but counterproductive and antagonistic" and "ignorant people".

Half the posts Wes left on that single FB thread where negative comments about Fauna or it's members. Now really, who is the real antagonist?

Not surprised he did the Paypal thing at all. Then better yet, attempts to blame someone else besides himself after he is the one who selected his auto-renewal. Always someone else besides himself who has the problem - classy.

I think he has really shot himself in the foot this time with his behavior. I'm guessing whatever he is saying elsewhere is an attempt to run with what he sees as the cool kids (not), but what he has said and done here may come with costs to him.
Unless he is retired or a trust fund baby, he is probably going to have to work. And if he ever applies for another job, many employers as part of due diligence these days, and just to check out applicants, may do an internet search of the applicant's name.
If they do a search, this thread should come up because threads on this forum are with few exceptions, permanent, and from it, a potential employer will be able to see Trowbridge's other posts. Trowbridge's IMHO unethical Paypal shenanigan here and other posts should show any employer that they would in my opinion be hiring a headache.
He can't really complain, what is going to do him in are his own words and actions.

It takes a real class act to talk crap about people behind their backs, doesn't it mr. trowbridge? You are becoming the definition of 'class act' with your shenanigans. You slip into this mode of spinelessness so easily and quickly that I highly doubt this is your first, or second even, foray into the arena.

You're not just a liar mr. trowbridge, and a bad one at that, but you're a coward who talks crap and then runs and hides behind his buddies.