Mike Matson (Mike's Phat Frogs) sold me a WC snake as CB

Originally Posted by jrsexotics

Evidence from April 7th of hognose being advertised as farmed imports.
In the pic attached.

Which proves absolutely nothing, since the snake was purchased 5 days prior to 4/7. It wouldn't even prove anything if the ad had been posted prior to the sale.

If I am so bad why do I vend shows consistently and as far as Texas?

Probably for the very same reasons that Dan Scolaro, Backwater Reptiles, Glades, etc, continued to do business well after their BOI exploits made it abundantly clear that they should be avoided - mass ignorance of their typical practices; an alarming amount of people who simply don't value integrity.

I have purchased hundreds of frogs from Mike and was satisfied with them. Exactly as described and once he even went out of his way to ship them to me on short notice.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

I for one have no doubt he lied to her about it being CB … just read some of the other threads about him.

I think that past poor behavior is damning, but I believe it is not proof positive of what happened in a current transaction. Otherwise, there would be zero incentive for someone who has a bad history to do better. There bad guy threads about Mike, but there are also reports of successful transactions.

Originally Posted by jrsexotics

Evidence from April 7th of hognose being advertised as farmed imports.

In the pic attached.

Ok, but her snake was purchased on 4/2.




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Originally Posted by Lucille

I think that past poor behavior is damning, but I believe it is not proof positive of what happened in a current transaction. Otherwise, there would be zero incentive for someone who has a bad history to do better. There bad guy threads about Mike, but there are also reports of successful transactions.

This is true, but her story rings true.

However, she may have confused farmed with CB.


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I'm not sure what to think here, WC snakes can be tricky and nearly always come with some fun bugs. I do think there is a pretty clear difference between CB and WC snakes. 90% of the time, CB right from the breeder test negative for me. So far, 100% of WC imports have tested positive for one or more parasites for me. as CB this species is a bit on the rare side and may have to be started on ectothermic prey in any event so a vet trip would be expected with this species regardless of origin. It does suck that she lost a snake so soon after purchase and I do not think she should give up on this species, they are great snakes. I encourage her to try another snake and take it to the vet right away.

Is it at all possible that certain people might consider a "farmed" animal to be CB? These "farmed" animals are definitely not being called wild-caught by their sellers. Hence, if given only those two choices (CB or WC), neither term would seem to would be truly descriptive of the snake in question.

I am not familiar with how snakes are "farmed". Can anyone enlighten me on that? Is it possible that the term "farmed import" is simply a way of deflecting buyers' or even the importers' attentions away from the fact that the snake was indeed WC?

Originally Posted by zovick

Is it at all possible that certain people might consider a "farmed" animal to be CB? These "farmed" animals are definitely not being called wild-caught by their sellers. Hence, if given only those two choices (CB or WC), neither term would seem to would be truly descriptive of the snake in question.

I am not familiar with how snakes are "farmed". Can anyone enlighten me on that? Is it possible that the term "farmed import" is simply a way of deflecting buyers' or even the importers' attentions away from the fact that the snake was indeed WC?

My understanding is that wild snakes or lizards are kept in large outdoor pens and lay eggs, when the eggs hatch the babies are collected and sold.

for me , a farmed animal would be considered WC, not saying they all are , but in most cases these farms are used to smugle wild life. They have no real control measures to prevent it.

here's an interesting read, this one is about GTPs but it will give you an idea why it's next to impossible to tell between WC and FB, this is why a farmed animal should always be considered WC. even if it is a real farmed animal, chances are almost 100% certain that it was in contact with WC ones.

https://news.mongabay.com/2011/11/sn...export-market/

Originally Posted by jrsexotics

The Madagascar hognose was a "farmed import" and she was told so at the show also.

Mike most definitely said "captive bred", NOT farmed import and did NOT tell me the snake was WC. My boyfriend and I both heard him loud and clear. If our phones recorded the exchange I'd upload it in a heartbeat.

Obviously, I'm a newbie. 6 months of research doesn't make me an expert in anything. If Mike had been truthful about the animals's WC status I would've left the show without purchasing anything.

As far as giant hognoses go, I'm incredibly fond of the species and will try again. Probably not for a long time though until I can find a breeder I trust for a true CB animal.