Beware Evan Stahl from Stahl Reptiles!

Well after reading this I can say that I won't be buying snakes from mr stahl. I may be nobody in your eyes but I do purchase around 2000-3000$ in snakes each year. Holding her refund hostage is just petty. You have the snakes and will get the money for them eventually. Call me crazy but as the customer I expect to be satisfied even if it puts you out a bit. The way I see it had you just refunded her promptly she might have even purchased from you in the future. I would have also seen good customer service on your part and added you to my list of good businesses, but no chance of that now.

After reading this and what was posted in FB she just wanted out. As soon as you file a claim with Paypal that money if frozen and maybe he doesn't have another 800 to cover it. Paypal would require him to have 1600 in his account to cover any credit card or bank claim. Not that hard to understand. Not to mention the way she filed the first one with out letting him know there would be no way in the world I would refund her money until I sold the snakes and could cover it on my end. I could see her filing a claim with her credit card or bank. Then he would be totally shafted until he went though the process and got his refund back from paypal. I commend him for waiting to ship the animals. I live in IL and this winter has been crazy. No way would I risk the animals. As much as I hate people getting ripped off I also hate people who don't tell the complete story and just bash people. I would look at it this way.. My new snakes are being fed and taken care of until they can be shipped. Its all part of being in this business / hobby.

This is what was posted in FB...

Buyers Watch out for Evan Stahl from Stahl reptiles!!! I started my purchase February 11 2013 paid in full the following week when the next day was clear to ship, after he demanded he be payed or he would refund my money and resell the animals. Even though I was not comfortable doing this with our a confirmed ship date I sent the payment so I wouldn't miss out on a good deal. The communication was great, of course until all his money was received, after It was pulling teeth to even get a response on a email! Mid march I requested I be refunded for my purchase for 800 and was told I would not receive a refund I would get my animals when I got them. I waited another week with failed communication and filed a dispute with PayPal for my money back. They did not grant my refund and his response when I asked if I was getting my animals or money was no way was I getting my animals which were paid for and I would get a refund when I got it. It's been OVER two months now and out 800 no animals not money back NOTHING. This is the kind of business he is running STEALING money and not providing animals!

The buyer is in the right in this situation, even though she over reacted and filed a dispute with paypal without consulting the buyer. She eventually lost the dispute and the funds were returned to the seller.

In this situation the seller should have done either 2 things, ship the snakes or refund the buyer. However this was not the case and he held on to the money for far too long (7 weeks is approximately 2 months) and he still has the money, while he sold the snakes.

There are faults on both ends, but ultimately the seller is in the wrong. He still has the money and has not refunded the buyer after he sold the snakes to another person. This is totally unethical in my eyes and he deserves the bad PR due to it.

I personally would not sell to Sierra or buy from Stahl.

Granted the buyer should have had a refund by now minus the deposit, the buyer keeps insisting there were clear days to ship. Here is Feb, Mar, and even Aprils weather for Detroit, Michigan. Ship Your Reptiles & Reptiles Express both advise not to ship when the low temps are below 38-40 degrees. From Feb 11th until mid March when you filed the Paypal dispute which days exactly were clear to ship?

Originally Posted by CAAK Balls

I would look at it this way.. My new snakes are being fed and taken care of until they can be shipped. Its all part of being in this business / hobby.

This!


I do feel bad that Sierra paid $800 and didn't get instant gratification. Evan hasn't held those snakes hostage though. The weather needed to be better.

What muddied the h2o was Sierra then deciding to file PayPal claims without communicating to Evan that she was upset and going to ask paypal for $ back for not getting them fast enough.

Evans TOS may not be for everyone, but they are HIS TERMS, and she agreed to them when she sent her deposit. When she first filed for a PayPal return, Evan could have told her to kick rocks, but he didn't. He did tell her she would have to wait because she initiated the process.

Bottom line, (I feel) is that Evan told her he would give her a refund, even if technically she wasn't entitled to one. To me, that doesn't scream bad seller.

In Sierra's defense, wanting to immediately get what you paid for isn't a bad thing. Unreasonable? Perhaps. Next time around wait for spring. In this hobby, we all play the winter waiting game.

Doesn't even's TOS state that he won't ship if the weather is below 32? If so, then aren't there a few days that he could have shipped?

Originally Posted by Wilomn

Doesn't even's TOS state that he won't ship if the weather is below 32? If so, then aren't there a few days that he could have shipped?

No, not unless it's been changed.

Originally Posted by carrienkashe

No, not unless it's been changed.

Originally Posted by evansnakes

There was a lull in the weather to some parts of the country and I shipped out a bunch of stuff that worked within the guidelines I have to follow to be allowed to ship. I was absolutely devasted when one of ball pythons that I made and really really liked died in transit during this period. That is why I went right back to insisting on night time temps here and there being above freezing, which had not happened again until just recently. If she had not pulled my monies through paypal I would have shipped her snakes to her a couple weeks ago.

He pretty clearly states here that 32 is the minimum temperature he would ship at. With his own statements Wes is correct that there were a couple of days (at least on his end) where he could have shipped them.

His terms actually don't state a temperature range that I could see. So based on his own written terms (which she agreed to at the time of deposit), she is due a complete refund because he should have shipped the snakes multiple times by now which breaks the "unless I fail to produce or supply the animal as agreed upon" part of the terms. In fact his terms actually condemn his holding the total sum ransom. He should have at least refunded all but the deposit at this point. I agree, that continuing to hold the money is just petty. The fact that he spent the money already has ZERO bearing on the fact that the buyer is owed AT LEAST a refund of the total minus the deposit.

Originally Posted by scaledverts

He pretty clearly states here that 32 is the minimum temperature he would ship at. With his own statements Wes is correct that there were a couple of days (at least on his end) where he could have shipped them.

Just to be fair, those temperatures shown are the recorded temperatures, not the projected, which can vary in range and which are not posted until the end of that day. The weather may be predicted to be 30 degrees, but may end up being 37 and vice versa.

The only problem I have is the money was spent prior to the snakes being shipped. Anything could have happened. Catastrophic things happen all the time. If he wanted to adhere to his TOS, he should have simply said no to the refund, and shipped the snakes on the first day possible. He chose to re-list them, and as soon as he did he accepted ownership of the animals, and owed the refund.