John Michael Martino aka John Michael Reptile. New York Long Island.

Just seeing this post. I know John for many many years. And would like you to know that he is a stand up guy and he has always had top notch stuff. And I would recommend him if you are looking to buy something that he is selling

Soon after the creation of this thread, the OP created a second account (not recommended; it is a violation of the rules) of thetortoiseshel with a name field of Sheldon Choy. That account was folded into the original. This bit of information may be relevant to member interests (especially due to the timing).

I don't see what the problem is. All the OP wants is something stating that the seller bread the animal his self, for his own records. Should the OP have asked for it up front, Yes he probably should have.

But really how hard is it to type up something stating that so and so bread the animal and its hatch date was this day and sign it. Although I do remember reading somewhere that the seller did provide the information already, just not on a certificate.

But OP if you want something like that after the fact you need to be reasonable and allow the seller some time to type something up. Not everyone can just drop what they are doing and get in front of a computer and make something up. There may have been something on the certificate that you created that the seller did not like, there for he did not want to sign.

I think the OP explained himself coherently and reasonably in post #10.

He requested something he thought was needed, but maybe his request was seen as unreasonable because of his english and the unfortunate timing (the wake), making the seller feel pressured and suspicious.

The reason for his request has been explained, and it has also been explained that what he asked for us not the industry norm, and is unnecessary.

IMO job done, BOI served its function well, everyone should be happy.

I do not believe that John Martino did anything wrong, and he was correct in feeling suspicious. The certificate that the OP sent could have been used to incriminate him if the OP were to do anything illegal. I totally get that, but no, I don't think the OP would do that, just pointing it out in John's point of view, especially when the OP kept mentioning CITES. Also, I would like to send my condolences, John, and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Now, for a little compromise/suggestion for the OP: If you ever buy a tortoise again, you could reformat the certificate. You could do a Bill of Sale rather than a CBB certificate. On the Bill of Sale, it could clearly show the transfer of a CBB tortoise from the seller to the buyer (you). That way, it doesn't appear that the seller is still in ownership of said tortoise, all can be at ease, and it does state CBB on the Bill of Sale somewhere. It can serve as proof of CBB, but more importantly proof of where you bought the tortoise from in case you were to produce any offspring from it in the future. Now, this does not mean that John owes you anything, because he doesn't. But I do understand where the miscommunication was and that you were not intending to be malicious.

Finally, my suggestion about a Bill of Sale does not mean that breeders owe you any type of paperwork. If it is extremely important to you, find another breeder to work with. I do think that asking a for a Bill of Sale rather than a CBB certificate seems a little more reasonable. Still, it isn't mandatory.