Tony Hurts Genetic Guarentee??? (HETS)

I havne't done it with ball pythons, but I have with kings and corns. I've never had two consecutive years of no albinos if the genes were present in both parents.

Of course even a small clutch of king or corn eggs is twice the size of an average ball clutch.

Paul, when a het does not prove out two years in a row, your out a lot more than just your original purchase price. $1100 is nothing compared to what put into the animal in food, housing and lost production. Your 13 eggs should have produced you 6 albinos over the last two years. Value those albinos at $1200 average and your out $7200. Thats what any and all het guarantees should be, the value of the loss in production you suffered. That is how I guarantee my hets and the only terms in which I will purchase hets from anyone.

I was burned by top shelf with many others 4 years ago and ever since I only buy hets from breeders that are willing to meet my terms in writing. Last year I bought an adult het pied from another breeder in TX, breed her to a male pied and when she did not prove out, I held him liable and collected $10,000 in his 06 production for my lose in pied production.

You can only hope to collect what was originally agreed upon, but don't cut yourself short in the future, while this is and should be a hobby for most, the time and money involved elevates to a small business no matter how you look at it. Ensure your treated fairly, ensure that you buy from people that have the resources to back up what they sell and that will be around to back up their promises. I'm 100% for the little guy and would rather buy from them as the service is often much better than several of the big boys, just because of the amount of time they have, however you need to also ensure that they can properly back their animal. We are now seeing many jobbers selling high end animals and it scares the hell out of me as life is great until a $4,000 - $10,000 animal is lost or dies during shipping and they have no way of replacing it so be careful.

Take care and good luck,

Neil Golli

Al guetznow had a similar situation with Ron Radloff too which many felt that it was fair that Al return the fake hets and Ron reimburse him. I still feel this is not fair at all and I think Tony owes your money back and you keep the females at the very least. I think that if you are going to sell second hand hets you better be ready to have to back them up and do whatever it takes to make the situation right, your reputation depends on it.

but their should be some universal form (at least in this country) that guarantee's what is being sold, the genetics and the guarantee. I was just wondering if an attorney were to write something up that would require the seller to insure that what is being sold is in fact what is being offered for sale! Let this be a standard for any sale of this type.

How do you expect anyone to live up to their end of the bargain if nothing is in writing. What if the person is no longer in the trade?

The exposure to offer for sale a false sense of security based on future offspring is a very dangerous proposition. Their really is no recourse unless you are dealing with a guaranteed breeder of quality. What also has to be taken into consideration is that, "you get what you pay for" Just as long as their are no avenues of redress 2 years down the road, and no written confirmation that can be used in a court of law, (that is federal court, ) the cost factor makes it an unworthy case, and the seller gets away with it.....again ! These things are done because he (the seller) has time on his side.

Originally Posted by wyblep

Also how many of you guys have bred a homozygous animal to a het for two consecutive years with no homozygous animals being produced? With fairly nice size clutches of course? Paul

It would be alot more likely with a het X het breeding, I really can't see anyone getting that bad of odds 2 years in a row on a homo x het pairing.

I'd agree that it seems highly improbable that you would get 0 albinos out of 13 eggs when breeding a homo x het. Not impossible but you'd have to seriously be pissing off the gods for it to happen. Perhaps there was a tub mix up and your het isn't really a het - perhaps the mom (that produced your het) retained sperm from a previous breeding - Perhaps Tony isn't good at keeping track of all his animals????

Anyway - Tony should be stepping up to the plate with more than just a replacement animal.

I hope this turns out well for you - keep us posted.

The chance of not producing a visible albino, out of 13 eggs, by breeding albino x het is 0.0122%. That is you have about a one in 10,000 chance of that happening.

For you bio stats/science people I ran an exact binomial test of goodness-of-fit and found his results of this breeding to be significant (P = 0.000244141) supporting the claim that the female is not a het.

Wow those are some astonishing numbers. I personally do not feel she is a het. I just wish Tony would come on here and answer some these questions or at least open some form of communication with me. And as far as being reimbursed I do feel that I should be compensated for my production loss. I feel that I should get my original purchase price back. and I should at least get a albino for each year that I bred her. I would be willing to give Tony the female back of course. I told Tony that I feel that this is what I feel is fair and he said via email that he thinks I am trying to take advantage of me and the offer he made me to buy her back for the price I paid is only good until June 1'st? Well I hope everyone who reads this thread thinks long and hard before they spend any money with Tony Hurt and Snake Evolutions. Paul

I will only post on here one time. So many things get posted on here that are simply not true.

The female in question...according to Paul has not produced albinos...is a het. I produced her myself.

If I had any question about her genetics I would not have sold her as a 100% het. I provide all my customers with quality animals and hope they are successful with there breeding efforts. I am very sorry Paul had bad odds but I can’t guarantee odds. Because I felt bad for Paul and as a customer service for his misfortune I offered to either buy the female back or replace her with another animal.


Snake Evolutions only sells quality animals and appreciate others who do the same thing. We breed Ball Python Morphs, Jungle Carpet, IJ Jags, Boa Morphs and Brazilian Rainbow Boas. We are not a broker.

Have a great day
Tony Hurt
Snake Evolutions

Originally Posted by garweft

The chance of not producing a visible albino, out of 13 eggs, by breeding albino x het is 0.0122%. That is you have about a one in 10,000 chance of that happening.

Its a 1 in 8,911 chance actually:-p but still you definitely get the point. Theres such thing as bad luck, but I think you surpassed the whole bad luck spell after not producing any the first year. Hopefully you at least held back hets that your producing, because I think its pretty obvious what you have isn't one.