Matt Oakley

[quote=craig kade;670928]here is the ad:
Rats
Pinks~~~~~~~$.65~~~~~~10g~~~~~25 for 16.25
Weaned~~~~~~$.85~~~~30-44g~~~~25 for $21.25
Small~~~~~~$1.00~~~~45-69g~~~~25 for $25.00
Medium~~~~~$1.25~~~~70-99g~~~~25 for $31.25
Large~~~~~~$1.50~~~100-149g~~~25 for $37.50
X Large~~~~$1.75~~~150-224g~~~~20 for $35
XX Large~~~$2.00~~~225-299g~~~~20 for $40
XXX Large~~$2.25~~~300-374g~~~15 for $33.75
Jumbo~~~~~~$2.50~~~375-449g~~~15 for $37.50
Colossal~~~$2.75~~~450-549g~~~10 for $27.50
X Colossal~$3.00~~~~~550g+~~~~~5 for $15.00

Let me see if I have this straight.
What you ordered were 140 XL rats (150-224g) @ 20 for $35 = $245
What he sent were 140 Large (100-149g) which sell @ 25 for $37.50 = $210

Originally Posted by craig kade

I weighed the bags of rats and some of the bags did not even average 150 grams per rat. Some of the rats were under 130 grams.

The difference between what you ordered and what he sent being $35
Is this correct?

Originally Posted by John E Dove

The difference between what you ordered and what he sent being $35
Is this correct?

To put a few different spins on it though...

Given an identical number of rats being sent, at the extreme edges of the weight ranges between those two, one size is more than twice the mass of the other. If he was doubling up the feeding to make sure every animal got an appropriately sized meal, but was only able to feed half as many snakes as a result...

Or, well... if they weren't what was ordered and advertised then they could be arguably 100% useless.

These guys may not reach a resolution that satisfies them both since they seem to still be fundamentally arguing about the substance of the complaint. I'm just of the opinion that an offering of the difference according to the supplier's price list isn't necessarily a fair or equitable resolution considering the nature of the product and the nature of the complaint.

No argument Mr. Haley, what I was attempting to do was find some starting point for compromise.
We do know that there was no doubling up on the feeding by Mr. Kade from the post of his friend Ms. Rabideau

Originally Posted by SerpentCreations

In our case, yes Craig was able to feed the rats off because of the varying sizes of snakes that he has, however the large boas got an appetizer instead of a meal.

Most certainly this was not the optimal meal but Mr. Kade is experienced enough to understand that you do not want to over do it either.
And not to smoke screen the issue but we all know that Wild Boas etc do not always get the optimal meals we feed our snakes.
Yes Mr. Oakley shorted Mr. Kade on his order and has handled the controversy poorly but I see no reason there cannot be a compromise between the $35 shortage and the over double $75 figure suggested by Mr. Kade. At least there is no reason if both parties truly desire to reach a settlement.

[quote=John E Dove;675229]
And not to smoke screen the issue but we all know that Wild Boas etc do not always get the optimal meals we feed our snakes.
QUOTE]


These are not Wild Boas, these are captive bred snakes that were purchased for the intention of breeding. They are used to food being offered to them on a regular basis. Especially in this critical time of the breeding season, the females should be fed regualarly to maintain their body mass so that they are of healthy size to breed. I do agree with you that the snakes were not harmed by eating a lesser amount, but this will not fill them and keep their weight maintained. The biggest issue is that "Mr. Kade" did not receive what he had ordered and in short, had to purchase more rats which he would not have had to do if he had received what he had originally ordered! Yes he did end up using the rats to feed other animals because of the amount of snakes that he does own, instead of dealing with the hassle of sending the rats back, which would have been useless and completely thawed by the time that they reached Mr. Oakley. In return all he asked for was to resolve the situation, when Mr. Oakley told him he had no intention of correcting the situation was when Mr. Kade posted on here. It was not until everyones opinions were posted that Mr. Oakley finally tried to resolve the situation, and in my opinion, "What do you want?" as the email that Mr. Oakley sent, is not a very professional email, or attitude to have when trying to resolve an issue, it's like someone is making him try to resolve it. Can't we all just be grown ups and come to a professional conclusion? Is less than 13% really a fair and justifiable compensation for the trouble that Mr. Kade had to go through in receiving something completely different than what he ordered? I think I would have just taken that as an insult as well.

This really has nothing to do with the thread, but I felt it had to be said. Ms. Rabideau, this point in the season has the most limited feeding schedule for females. In fact, many of my females go about five months all in all without feeding during the breeding season. The time directly after birthing through the summer and early fall is when they need weight put on them.

Just to keep this on topic, I really don't know anyone who has that many sizes above large. It just looks like a scheme to jack the prices up more often. Most of the people I get rats from have large that run around 200g and every thing larger is called jumbo.

Chris Canada-Smith

Originally Posted by JCCS

I really don't know anyone who has that many sizes above large. It just looks like a scheme to jack the prices up more often. Most of the people I get rats from have large that run around 200g and every thing larger is called jumbo.

Chris Canada-Smith

200g for a large rat, that is exactly the point, that is a decent size for a large rat. How can anyone call a 130g or less rat an XL rat, especially when the add states 150g - 225g. Ultimately there was a mistake made by Mr. Oakley in size of the rats, and there was a mistake made by Mr. Kade that he did not take pictures to prove the poor packing and sizes of the rats. Live and learn.

Originally Posted by JCCS

This really has nothing to do with the thread, but I felt it had to be said. Ms. Rabideau, this point in the season has the most limited feeding schedule for females. In fact, many of my females go about five months all in all without feeding during the breeding season. The time directly after birthing through the summer and early fall is when they need weight put on them.
Chris Canada-Smith

I am aware of this, however their weight still needs to be maintained during this time and I still feed my snakes as long as they are willing to eat, yes some of them refuse to eat, but I still try. Anyways, that was not the point that I was trying to make, I was just trying to make the point that what was ordered was not received. Pure black and white, simple as that.

Originally Posted by craig kade

He asked what I wanted I told him and he did not like it, I will not deny any of the emails, they look accurate, if anybody wants to send me their money, have me rip them off and offer a 13 percent refund and call it good, great. I will offer purple elephants at $1000, send you a white mouse and offer you $150 back. Plain and simple if you want what you order do not order from this guy, period. I think I have made my point if I am lying because I am to busy to reply to his email as quick as he would like then my bad. I took his pitiful offer as an insult and almost did not reply at all, then I decided I would send him an answer. If I ripped a customer off and they said that 18% refund or whatever was fair I would have had them the money instantly, not counter offer. Plain and simple he admits shorting me and admits he was wrong. What is $50, nothing, $25 more from him and we would not even be having this conversation. If I was trying to make a future of this I would, and do, try to make my customers happy. So if after reading this you still want to do business with him great, let me know how those "hets" prove out or what "healthy " means. If he ships you a dead animal he will probably offer you a 13% refund. Or if you order a boa and get a ball, 13% refund. He asked what I wanted I told him, he did not like it. I really wanted my order shipped right but figured $75 would get me rats from a real supplier.I guess I will just say, if you still do business with him and have a problem please email me so I can send you a big fat I told you so. I still need to go get rats from a supplier that ships what they advertise. Sorry if I did not answer this soon enough. I will be adding to this thread whenever I get a minute just to keep it fresh. Good day. Craig Kade

Just like I said before, you as well as other people have attempted to take this so far to the extreme it's definitely not parallel to this situation. Purple elephant, white mouse? I didn't send you hamsters instead of rats, from the fact that I weighed each bag and all of the rats were relatively the same size, I don't believe you could have gotten more than 5 undersized rats. But you want $75 back to cover 5 undersized rats?? That's ridiculous, and obviously taking advantage of the situation. That's not fair at all so I offered to give you $50 back which is more than fair for a couple of rats being undersized.

My point about it taking you so long get back to me if you wanted a resolution is that you e-mailed me back everyday prior to this incident and was on fauna religiously posting new threads but now you were suddenly "to busy to reply to my emails," which I think is bs. How is me asking you what you want back a pitiful insult not worth replying to? I didn't admit to shorting you, I admitted that there was room for error in my methods of weighing them by the bag and not each individual animal and stated that I will no longer do this for the future. If I wasn't concerned about your "customer happiness" I wouldn't have asked you what you wanted back in the first place and honestly I don't believe you'd be happy anyway.

Also, most hets that I sell are animals that I planned to or did breed myself but replaced it with the visible morph and no longer needed it. I've never shipped someone a dead animal, matter a fact I haven't had a DOA in 5 years and refunded the persons money for the animal. Nor have I sent anyone and animal of a different species, that's just stupid for you to say and insults my intelligence as I am a Vet Tech major and have worked at the National Aquarium, MD Zoo in Baltimore, and studied animals since I was 6 years old.

I would also encourage the next people to read this in the future who do get rodents from me to also e-mail Craig and tell him of your experience...

I really just want to have this over with and even though $75 back for a couple of undersized rats is crazy, that's what i'll send you back. So, you'll have a $75 refund by 12 noon today, feel free to post another thread if I don't send it...

Matt Oakley

Originally Posted by craig kade

Just to add, he says it best "screw me back" as in yes I did get screwed by Matt in the first place, well put you are right. Sucks when people voice how they got screwed and actually do not like it. I never said he never tried to resolve it, he did after I posted here, just did a piss poor job of it in my opinion.

And I used the phrase "screwed me back" because that's how you felt of the situation not because I did...

I have also changed some of my sizes so just incase someone else doesn't read my ad before sending me their order they wont be upset... I have so many sizes so I can be as accurate as possible.

Mice
Pinkies~~~~~~$.35~~~~~1-2g~~~~~50 for $17.50
Fuzzies~~~~~~$.40~~~~~3-7g~~~~~50 for $20
Hoppers~~~~~~$.45~~~~~8-12g~~~~50 for $22.50
Small~~~~~~~~$.50~~~~13-19g~~~~50 for $25
Medium~~~~~~~$.55~~~~20-29g~~~~50 for $27.50
Large~~~~~~~~$.60~~~~30-39g~~~~25 for $15
Jumbos~~~~~~~$.65~~~~40-49g~~~~25 for $16.25
Colossal~~~~~$.70~~~~50g-59g~~~25 for $17.50
X colossal~~~$.75~~~~60g+~~~~10 for $7.50 These are HUGE!



Rats
Pinks~~~~~~~$.65~~~~~~10g~~~~~25 for 16.25
Weaned~~~~~~$.85~~~~30-44g~~~~25 for $21.25
Small~~~~~~$1.00~~~~45-74g~~~~25 for $25.00
Medium~~~~~$1.25~~~~75-124g~~~~25 for $31.25
Large~~~~~~$1.50~~~125-199g~~~25 for $37.50
X Large~~~~$1.75~~~200-274g~~~~20 for $35
XX Large~~~$2.00~~~275-349g~~~~20 for $40
XXX Large~~$2.25~~~350-424g~~~15 for $33.75
Jumbo~~~~~~$2.50~~~425-499g~~~15 for $37.50
Colossal~~~$2.75~~~500-574g~~~10 for $27.50
X Colossal~$3.00~~~~~575g+~~~~~5 for $15.00


Hamsters
Large~~~~$.75~~~~~30-99g~~~~~25 for $18.75
Jumbo~~~~$1.00~~~~100-200g~~~~25 for $25.00


Gerbils
Small~~~~$.50~~~~~>50g~~~~~~25 for $12.50
Medium~~~$.75~~~~~+/-75g~~~~25 for $18.75
Large~~~~$1.00~~~~+/-100g~~~~25 for $25


Rabbits~~~~~~~3-4lbs~~~~~~~$6


Guinea Pigs
Ex small~~~~~100g-199g~~~~~~~$1
Small~~~~~~~~200g-400g~~~~~~~$2
Medium~~~~~~~400g-599g~~~~~~~$3
Large~~~~~~~~600g-849g~~~~~~~$4
Jumbo~~~~~~~~850g-1249g~~~~~~$5
Colossal~~~~~~~1250g+~~~~~~~$5.50


Chicks~~~~35g~~~~~$.35~~~~~25 for $8.75


1000 Crickets (sm, med, lg)~$25 (local pickup only)