Alex Hue- Not what we thought...

Well, here we go...

We did a trasaction with Alex Hue Reptiles (www.alexhuereptiles.com) way back in December of last year. We put our deposit on our 20 lot of female ball pythons. On his website, he claims that these are CH balls, shipped to him from Africa, and he would get to eat about 2 times before shipment. He also stated that these animals will NOT need to be deparatized internally or externally when they arrived. We thought, GREAT! Cheap snakes, got a few meals in them, and he shot them up with antibiotics. Rock and roll right?

We were said to recieve snakes the first week of May. They were delayed. He guranteed everyone they'd arrive on the 16th, with inconvience animals. My boyfriend took a day off of work, and we recieved no snakes. We lost about 100-150 dollars in cash that day because he didn't send us an e-mail saying there was another delay. We recieved them finally on May 23rd, and we probed them a couple days later. My boyfriend was getting some odd scale counts. Some going all the way down to 6 and 7 scales. I e-mailed Alex Hue about it and he said out of the 8000 snakes he shipped out no one has complained about missexed animals. I guess being a first isn't possible. I said fine, they are still so tiny, maybe it was our mistake. After all, we bought from him with total trust. I confronted him about no inconvience animals since he delayed shipment twice and said in both times he would rectify. I have several e-mails showing this, and him ignoring it.

In less than a month of our care, we had 5 show up with skin problems that wasn't linked to humidity issues it was an internal parasite, 4 with lumps in their stomachs that felt like rat skulls, but were never fed, and the ones who did eat, half regurged and all had runny or bloody stools.

I posted a thread on how to help the snakes out. There were a couple of people that mentioned they were ridden with parasites. We got flagyl and panacur from bean farm, and have treated them, and cross our fingers for the remaining ones. We have lost 3 so far. One has the skin problem, and the other two had the lumps in their stomachs.

Here are the e-mails. Starting with the shipment days. I will post notes underneath them all.

From: Rai Quee
To: Alex@alexhuereptiles.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:03 PM
Subject: Lot of ball pythons!


Hi Alex~

I was interested in a twenty lot of female balls. You said you will be taking 10 percent deposit down.

So it should come out as follows:

Original price lot~ 220.00
Female prices~ 20.00 (to change ten of the ten into females)
Shipping~ 45.00
Total: 285.00

Now, 10 percent of that total price would be 28.50, unless do you mean just 10 percent of the ball python price?

I'm not picky on the ball pythons, just that all are female and i'd perfer that the meals you do offer them, they eat. But i can know it can be hard.

Do you accept paypal? If so, give me your address for paypal and i will send a deposit asap!

Thanks!

~*Desire' Zizzo
Captive Creations

((inital intrest in the pythons...))

From: "Alex Hue" <alex@alexhuereptiles.com>
To: "Rai Quee" <velvetropepolly@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 02:37:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Lot of ball pythons!

Hello Desiree,
Your downpayment would be $30.00 (rounded to the next 10). Paypal is alex@alexhuereptiles.com We offer 2 meals...99% of them usually eat at least one...we then send them on their way to you.

Alex

((his responce...))

To: Alex Hue
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Lot of ball pythons!


Alex~

I sent a deposit your way! Oh, i was just wondering, are these balls just simply collected? Or are pregnant females collected and the eggs like..farm hatched? I know you said you are getting them from Africa, so i figured at the weights you gave us, they would be farm hatched.

Also it says they won't have to be treated for parasites inside or out, do you treat them before hand? Is that why we won't have too? I like the sound of it either way Just curious

Thanks!

~*Desire' Zizzo


((my questions about the parasite thing..))

Alex Hue <alex@alexhuereptiles.com> wrote:
Hello Desiree,
These will be farm hatched babies, I typically get them in within days of hatching.

Alex

((him ignoring the question on the parasites and answering other things..))

From: "Alex Hue" <alex@alexhuereptiles.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:23:59 -0400
Subject: Ball Python update

This e-mail is an update to all customers who have either paid in full or placed a deposit on farmed/captive hatched baby ball pythons from Africa for the 2005 season.

We are currently on track to receive our babies in from Africa starting the 3rd week of April. This will put shipping to commence around the 1st. week of May. Customers who placed their orders/deposits/payments down prior to January 2005 will be first in line to receive their ball pythons during that first week in May.

Customers who placed their orders between January 1st. and February 15th. will receive their orders the 2nd. week of May.

Any customers who placed their orders after February 15th. will receive their orders on the 3rd. and 4th. weeks of May.

As a side note, any customers who purchased less than 20 ball pythons may receive their orders prior to our scheduled shipping weeks above if I have babies that are ready to be shipped earlier.

Anyone wishing to pay their orders in full may do so at this time, otherwise we will get a hold of you via phone or e-mail 5-7 days prior to your scheduled shipping dates to request payment in full.

All babies will carry the following guarantees:
All Baby Ball Pythons captive hatched/farmed from Africa will carry a 5-day health guarantee from the time shipment was accepted. All reptiles are guaranteed properly sexed and as described unless otherwise stated. Live arrival guarantee on reptiles only effective if shipment is signed for on first delivery attempt.They will all have also been fully re-hydrated and offered 2 meals prior to shipping unless otherwise instructed by you.
If you instruct us to not re-hydrate and offer a minimum of 2 meals prior to shipping in order to obtain your baby ball pythons earlier in the delivery schedule, then all guarantees will be null and void. These babies will also not need to be deparasitized internally or externally. We take extreme measures to ensure that the babies you receive are mite/tick free and the healthiest specimens possible.

Your balances can be made via paypal to alex@alexhuereptiles.com or visa/mastercard over the phone. For cashiers checks and money orders, please send payment to ...

((here is the e-mail about our shipdate. We finished paying right after Christmas, in December, so ours was to arrive the first week of may. Also he states in his gurantee they do not need to be deparatized again.))

Desire' Zizzo to alex
More options May 2

Hey Alex,

We bought a 20 lot of balls from you and was just curious when to you
plan on shipping them? You said first week of may, but i would like to
know a date so my boyfriend can be home to take care of them.

Thanks

~*Desire'

((here i am asking for a date, so my boyfriend can take off of work.))

Alex Hue to me
More options May 3

Hello Desire,
Shipping is scheduled for next Monday overnight via UPS for a Tuesday
morning delivery.

Thanks for the business,
Alex

((here is his reply))

Hello,
I sent this e-mail out to all customers who were awaiting ball pythons. Apparently some customers did not receive it due to a virus that has been going around......so, I'm now resending it without any attachments.


>>>>>>Our last batch of ball pythons that arrived did not do very well, we ended up with 50% or so DOA due to a layover via the airlines that caused them to chill and freeze. Because of this, we currently do not have enough baby balls to fill our orders for this week (the week of May 9th). We however will commence shipping again during the week of May 16th., we do have a lot of non-feeding fresh babies if you cant wait til the week of the 16th, these will carry no guarantees...if you wish to have these babies, please shoot me a e-mail. Otherwise all of the customers that wait til the week of the 16th. will receive feeding rehydrated babies. We're anticipating the balance of everyones orders to be filled by no later than May 19th. which is the 3rd. week of May...GUARANTEED!
I apologize for the inconvenience...but these things do occur when importing any reptiles, if you feel you can get your order filled quicker somewhere else, then please e-mail me and we can refund your deposit. Otherwise, we will have everyones orders filled by the week of the 16th. and we will be adding a few extra animals to everyones order for the inconvenience. If you have any questions or concerns....please feel free to e-mail or call....Thank You!<<<<<<

((here is his e-mail stating about the layover. Me and my boyfriend understood, crap happens. Notice how he says he guarentees everyones order be filled by the 19th. Also the inconvience, he will throw in extra animals. This is the first time he says this.))

Alex~

Hi, We were wondering if you could ship our order of 20 female balls
to us for Wed delivery or Thurs delivery? That was my boyfriend won't
have to take another day off of work because we both work night
shifts. Also, i don't mean to sound rude, but what exactually are the
extra animals? We would just like to know so we can prepare for them.

Thank you
~*Desire'

((my e-mail to him asking for ship date so we won't take another wasted day off of work. Also asking about the extra animals. Note, this is the first time i ask.))

Desire' Zizzo to Alex
More options May 18

Alex~

Just curious about our ship date..you hadn't got back to me and thats
kinda strange...

Thanks
~*Desire'

((never got a responce...))

Alex Hue to Undisclosed-Re.
More options May 19

Hello Everyone,
I'd like to once again aplogize for the delay...but this is what happens when dealing with imported ball pythons. Some of you are approx. 2 weeks past your due/ship dates but most of you are right on track. we had one order 2 weeks ago that didnt do too well and was the reason for the backup.

As of right now...we have all of your ball pythons ready to go !!! Orders have been shipping this week with the balance to be shipped on Mon.(May19th) and Tues.(May20th). There were some orders that did not make it out this week...for those I apologize and will rectify.

I need for you to please e-mail me and let me know which day you wish for us to ship your order. Once again...the 2 shipping dates are either Mon. or Tues. of this coming week.

If you can not accept deliveries on that Tues. or Weds...please let me know when you can and wish to accept delivery.

There are also some orders that HAVE NOT been paid in full yet. If your order hasd not been paid in full, please get a hold me prior to the weekend and make final payment.

If you have any question or concerns...please e-mail me, fax to 616-6565635, or leave me a voice message to 616-8355405.

Thank You for your patience and patronage !

((a new e-mail stating he couldn't get the balls to us on time. Notice how he said he'd apologize and rectify for the inconvience. Once again he offers extras..))

Hi Alex~

Oh boy...let's see. I have off of work on Monday, which you can't ship
on a sunday so that won't work..then i work at 9 both tuesday and
wednesday. And i rather now wait any later to recieve them. I will
have my boyfriend once again take off of work. So we will take the
Tuesday arrival, Monday shipped.

Thanks.
~*Desire'

((I reply on the ship date, and have my boyfriend take ANOTHER day off of work, costing us another 150..))

Alex Hue to me
More options May 22

Hello Desiree,
Will do ...monday for tuesday.

Once again...I apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your
patience and understanding.

Alex

((he confirms the date, and apologizes...))

Alex~

About our order, we have recieved it but some things seem to be somewhat wrong.

My boyfriend said he started to go through them and probe them, and a
LOT of them turned out to be males. I will be able to get back to you
tonight once i get back from work and give you the exact amount out of
the 20 that are males. We will also re-probe them again to be 100
percent sure.

Also, two of them aren't able to right themselves when put on their
back, which worries me.

And last, we didn't get any extra animals. Now if you were just going
to send male ball pythons to us, then i'd say forget it, but if you
were going to send females we were all for that.

I will once again get back to you on specifics about the probing last
night, i just wanted to bring this to your attention asap.

Thank you.
~*Desire' Zizzo
Edward Sommers
www.captive-creations.com

((me bringing to his attention about the weird scale counts. This is also the second time i ask for inconvience animals...))

Alex Hue to me
More options May 25

Hello Desire,
You ordered females, we shipped females...we guarantee the sexes to be 100%
accurate, we pop and probe prior to them leaving here.

We've sent out over 8,000 ball python now and so far no one else has
received missexed snakes.

I would rahter have you just ship all of the animals back to receive a full
refund.

Thanks,
Alex

((here he claims that they can't possibly be males. He offers us a refund, but we pass on it. We want the snakes, not a refund.))

Desire' Zizzo to Alex
More options May 26

Alex~

I will trust your judgement. We went through them once again and we
did 4 of them that went down to 6 scales and 3 that were 5...but they
are still tiny. I know your a very reliable person otherwise i
wouldn't have ordered from you.

5 of them already have fed, which is suprising.

What about the inconvience animals? Otherwise you could maybe just
refund us 50 dollars instead of having to send out another shipment.

Thank you.
~*Desire'

((here we went through a probed them twice, and got some deeper scale counts. I was worried so i brought it to his attention...this is also the third time i ask for inconvience animals, or a slight refund for the inconvience...I recieved no reply to this e-mail...))

Alex~

I am e-mailing you once again about our shipment of ball pythons. We
have lost 3 of them today alone, with them under our care in less than
a month. They all are ridden with internals although you claim that
they would not NEED to be deparatized on your website. Animals are
regurging, have bloody or runny stools because of it. We had 4 or 5
get skin problems. We first thought it was a skin infection due to
higher humidity but after solving that problem it never went away. We
found out it was a parasite as well.

4 additional animals have had lumps in their stomachs that have felt
like rat skulls. But these have been animals that have not eaten.

I am quite furious. You were going to ship to us first week of May,
but didn't get to until the 23rd. You said you would make right on the
huge inconvience, but you never did. No extra animals, no nothing.

We have gritted our teeth and waited to long. We want a refund, we are
guessing AT LEAST half of them aren't going to make it, and we don't
have high hopes for the others.

If you ignore this e-mail like you did the last one, or don't make
right on this situation, i will definatly make sure it finds its way
to the BOI.

~*Desire'
Captive Creations

((This e-mail was sent. I was upset. I have held my cool through this whole transaction, and have found nothing but diassapointment. I also once again, for the 4th time, confront him about the inconvience animals. We were intitled to them! ))

Alex Hue to me
More options Jun 21 (23 hours ago)

Take it to the BOI !!!!!!

Considering you're the ONLY PEOPLE TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH BALL PYTHONS FROM
ME THIS YEAR !!!

Ya think threatening someone whos got NUMEROUS good guy posts on the BOI is
gonna get you compensation ?

Think about it ! ya think your threats will work better than a well thought
out e-mail ?

Balls in your court....look at your previous e-mails, you were offered a
COMPLETE REFUND when you claimed the animals were missexed days after you
received them, then you claimed that you were surprised that 5 of them had
already eaten. Now you're claiming you're having problems. SHOW ME A VET
REPORT and maybe I'll consider doing something.


((I got this reply about an hour later, the fastest i have ever gotten a reply from him. I really don't understand how my e-mail wasn't well thought out. I told him everything that was wrong, and how he promised things that just didn't happen. He also states I am the only person who had problems with his ball pythons this year, but i know other people have. And i am sure they will support me in this thread. He also claims getting a vet report. I would if i spent more than 11 bucks per snake. To treat these things would cost HUNDREDS if not thousands...even tho he claims they were clean. I don't need a vet report to tell me that the lesions on the skin, the runny stool, the bloody stool, the dying and the firm lumps in their stomachs, aren't normal.))

I really don't like bringing things to the BOI, and this is only my second time doing so, but something needed to be said. Even if i do not get a refund, i want others to know that good guys posts don't mean the world. Read the bad guys ones too!

~*Desire' Zizzo
Captive Creations

Not to be a naysayer (well yes to be a naysayer) but Alex offered you a FULL REFUND. What else could he have done?

When you had doubts about the animals you should have sent them back. This would have saved all of the other aggravation.

There are lots of other people selling imported baby Ball Pythons.

It is strange about the mis-sexing. Everyone is fallible and makes mistakes.

Wrong of Alex to indicate that there was no possibility of a mistake, but wrong of you as well to keep snakes you probed to be males you don't need.

If the snakes are not the correct sex, return them and the ones that didn't make it... if you can't get a resolution/refund, I would think a credit card dispute (if you paid by CC through paypal) would work if you got an "incorrect product" (sick snakes and males instead of females).

But over and over again, the "Oh I'll wait and see" rather than "return the snakes right away" can bite you in the rear for paypal and credit disputes. The longer the animals are in your care without you returning them, the more suspicious it looks.

Just my 2 cents.

PS - No matter how good a reputation is, the attitude that "no one else has had a problem before, so screw you" isn't a good one. Hopefully Alex comes here and explains his side as well.

Originally Posted by liquidleaf

The longer the animals are in your care without you returning them, the more suspicious it looks.

Just my 2 cents.

I would not say suspicious, just a poor decision.

Desire',

Have you taken the Ball Pythons to your vet? I know if I had a group of animals that had bloody or loose stools, couldn't hold themselves righted or balanced, and were apparently dying, that it is the first thing I would do. A vet report would probably go a long way in this kind of situation. Right now Alex Hue has nothing to go on but your word that there is a problem, so I can understand his point of view as well as your own.

Best of luck to you both in this unfortunate situation,

Lauren Rost

Originally Posted by shrap

I would not say suspicious, just a poor decision.

True. I could have worded that better. I meant that it would appear more suspicious to the credit card company or Paypal for a refund dispute, I don't mean to say this is a scamming situation, seems like this is just a badly handled sale.

It could well be bacterial problems that have caused the bloody stools and not parasites.

While baby balls do probe deep it would have been better to just send them all, or just part if he was ok with it, back to Alex and then worked something out.

I don't think anyone is really bad here, just short tempered perhaps. I know you've waited a long time Raiquee and Alex was perhaps overworking when dealing with your problems as he is not known for being short with his customers.

Is it possible that you guys could have a "do over"?

I'd be happy to mediate if you all think that would be helpful. Shoot me an email and let me know.

You too Alex, I'd be happy to play middle man if you think it would help.

Not to be a naysayer (well yes to be a naysayer) but Alex offered you a FULL REFUND. What else could he have done?

Just to reiterate what Jim said. You were offered a full refund. If you were not comfortable with the snakes you should’ve accepted it. I have dealt with Alex in more than one occasion. He has always been courteous and shipments have arrived when he said they would. Sexing has not been a problem and close to 90% of the animals ate right away. Probing baby pythons has to be done with extreme care. You can easily puncture and damage the internal tissues when using the probe. In doing so you can go even more than 6 scales! I’m not saying this is the case I’m just giving an example. How are you keeping those babies? Are they housed and fed individually? Are they kept meticulously clean? Failing to do any of the above can and will result in skin blisters, and mouth rot. How often are you feeding them? A picture of your current set-up will greatly help. These are the way I keep mine. It doesn’t matter if they are CB or CH.

Thanks.

You received your ball pythons on 05/24/2005, we received a e-mail from you claiming the babies were mis-sexed on 5/25/2005...NO MENTION of the skin or lump problems. When did those problems develop? my best guess is those problems developed as a result of YOUR CARE. I believe this because you sent a e-mail to complain about mis-sexed snakes the day after you received them but no mention of the other problems until 6/21/2005...almost a month after you received them.

We offered a full and complete refund the day you e-mailed us, why not take us up on the offer if you felt there was a problem then? You would think that mis-sexed snakes and the other problems you're claiming would've been concern enough to send them back for a refund? You also claim that your babies didnt spring right back up and turn over when placed on their backs...were they balled up when you did this ??? because if they were...any ball python person will tell you thats normal.

We sent you animals as described that were sexed properly, deparasitized externally and internally (if they required it), rehydrated, and offered a minimum of 2 meals with most having eaten at least once, we also hold onto the babies for at least 2 weeks to ensure no underlying problems surface. We take great pride and go through great lengths to ensure that our customers receive properly sexed and healthy animals. That is why we offer a refund right then and there whenever a customer has issues with any of our animals.

You also now claim that you're sure the skin problem is a parasite, oddly enough I've never come across any BPs with parasites under the skin. You claim that you know for sure they have a parasite infection internally...where are the vet reports I asked for? if you dont have them...how did you come to the conclusion they absolutely have parasites?

In your last e-mail you claimed 3 of the babies died all on the same exact day (6/21/2005)...please explain to me how they lived for just about 30 days whie in your possesion and then all of a sudden 3 of them just died on the same exact day? sounds to me like a husbandry problem.

If we had not shipped reptiles that were as described, the only thing that would've made sense was to take the refund offer and ship them back. You were offered that opportunity almost 30 days ago...you declined. Our guarantee was for 5 days as stated multiple times on our website and through e-mail correspondence...I would think that if you initially had issues with the sex of the animals, you would've also been extremely cautious and alert to any other problems that may have been present and would've let us know within those 5 days...but you didnt, you shot off a e-mail almost 30 days later.

So are you more concerned with the animals, their health, and what the actual problems may or may not be....OR are you more concerned about getting some freebies/discount/or a combination of both? I believe its the latter. I believe that has been and still remains THE ONLY concern you've had.

Heck, if someone sent me mis-sexed animals knowing that I needed a certain sex for breeding purposes, I sures the heck would've sent them back for a refund...unless of course YOU and YOUR BOYFRIEND were not confident enough at your sexing skills and thought YOU made a mistake. Which would lead me as a seller to believe that if YOU dont know how to properly sex snakes, then you may possibly also be lacking in husbandry.