Interesting but unethical Hybrid attempt. - FaunaClassifieds
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Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Snake Discussion Forums > Ball Pythons Discussion Forum

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View Poll Results: How do you feel about this?
Stupid, pointless, why bother mixing these 2 beautiful species? 47 38.84%
I love it, very awesome idea. 8 6.61%
Interesting at the least, but doubtfully possible. 17 14.05%
If nothing else, Id like to see results. 49 40.50%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-07-2005, 11:38 PM   #1
Southwick Herps
Interesting but unethical Hybrid attempt.

What do you all think about the prospects of this hybridization.?
I personally dont like it, I love Ball Pythons and Burms seperately but am against hybrids of such unrelated species. Evolution carried them apart for a reason...
But I think they have a key factor working against them.. Mechanical isolation which is just having sex organs that are incompatible. Also, in the event their babies pass the Postzygotic barriers I think they embryos will suffer from Hybrid Inavailability which is the parents are non compatible on a microcell level, down to the genetic material. In the event a baby is produce it will suffer from Hybrid Sterility and/or Hybrid Breakdown which states that only the first generation hybrids are capable of reproduction, thereafter the offspring are sterile.
Incase you couldn't tell Im a firm believer in the Theory of Evolution, and I also thoroughly enjoy studying it...
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=944478,946272 this is where it was found.
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:01 AM   #2
Southwick Herps
There's a whole topic on kingsnake about hybrids... I think people are losing their mind.
Snakes are not dogs. Dog breeds are all compatible because they are all at worst in the same kingdom, phylum, class, order, and family. The genus and species can change, but from what I have come to understand about genetics, speciation, and such it would make dogs all of the same genus and species, because what classifies a population as a species is the ability to interbreed successfully (produce vital offspring with reproductive capabilities). Dogs all came from one source, the wolve anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, and not because of domestication. As landfills arose, some wolves made life a hell of a lot easier by just eating food they found on dumps. The wolves that could tolerate humans, and not run when a human approached lasted longer on the dumps, and gathered more food, which in turn made them the most successful breeders. Low and behold, natural selection favored these wolves. As the need lessened to be able to hunt, track, and all of these highly specialized hunting behaviors decreased, so did the brain size. Eventually, they were calm enough to own as pets. Breeding the calmness into the genes generation after generation is what brought about some common canine characteristics... It is completely illogical to assume that slective breeding created floppy ears, and upwardly curving tails, actually there is a quite interesting report on how this happened. Adrenaline is directly linked to parts of the DNA that control melanism, and certain physical traits, which created a varying coat coloration, not one solid color like seen on wolves, and brought it to the patchy color we see today, and lowered the ears and raised the tails...

Snakes however did not all generate from one species. Not all snakes derived from a common ancestor. Thats why there are so many different types of snakes. Colubrids, Pythons, Boas... Arboreal Snakes, terrestrial snakes, aquatic snakes. these all evolved in different parts of the world, from different ancestors to fulfill different survival needs, whereas the dog arose from one common ancestor and ballooned out to spread across the globe.

My point is, you can't just pick and choose the snake species you wish to breed because "the outcome would be cool". Snakes are highly specialized, and very well adapted to their environment, and to breed with the same species, and occasionally close relatives like we see with different US colubrid integrades that only occur because of territorial overlaping and being able to overcome Mechanical Isolation, Geographical Isolation, Behavioral Isolation, and in some cases even Temporal Isolation...
I think that people should stop hybridizing snakes. Get real, the majority only do it to make an insane profit on their creations like with the Borneo Bat Eaters. They make quite a profit. Buy simple, cheap burms and retics, and breed em together, and sell for thousands upon thousands...
The intentions might be just, trying to downsize a larger species for those who cannot accomodate such a hefty sized snake, but if you cant house it, own a different snake or wait for dwarf's to be found and bred like the Dwarf Tic's... If all else fails, you can selectively breed for size... How do you think we got certain dog traits? Pure chance, no people took those animals with desired traits and bred them and other likes in the species to produce the smaller sized snake. It would take years and years, and maybe never happen, but there is no need for hybridization.
 
Old 12-08-2005, 11:03 AM   #3
Cyberkitten36
*sigh*...another wannabe GOD. Why can't ppl just leave nature alone???
 
Old 12-09-2005, 01:38 AM   #4
bbbxcursion
Yeah, IMO that's just not right.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 04:40 PM   #5
Dr Owens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwick Herps
Mechanical isolation which is just having sex organs that are incompatible.
Is that an argument against this hybridization? What if the breeding is successful? Wouldn't that make their sex organs "compatible?"

Quote:
Also, in the event their babies pass the Postzygotic barriers I think they embryos will suffer from Hybrid Inavailability which is the parents are non compatible on a microcell level, down to the genetic material.
You are basing this statement on what? Since this breeding has never happened before you're simply speculating about things of which you have no knowledge.

Quote:
In the event a baby is produce it will suffer from Hybrid Sterility and/or Hybrid Breakdown which states that only the first generation hybrids are capable of reproduction, thereafter the offspring are sterile.
Again, what are you basing this on? Once again, you are speculating and stating it as if it's fact. That is irresponsible at best.

Quote:
Incase you couldn't tell Im a firm believer in the Theory of Evolution, and I also thoroughly enjoy studying it...
That's nice, but that doesn't make a single one of your previous statements accurate or factual. Perhaps you should learn the difference between fact and opinion, and state each as such.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 05:14 PM   #6
Lucille
[quote=Southwick Herps],
I think that people should stop hybridizing snakes...... They make quite a profit. Buy simple, cheap burms and retics, and breed em together, and sell for thousands upon thousands...
QUOTE]


According to what I learned in economics, there is a law of supply and demand. If people are paying thousands and thousands, there is a demand for what is being produced.

If everyone saw this interbreeding as something not to be done, there would be no purchasers and no demand, but you yourself say that people want to buy these animals.

Many of the pets that humans have cultivated, purebred or not, would not survive without the help of their keepers. How long would a chameleon survive on the streets of Manhattan? The species you talk of may be specialized to adapt to their environment, but most of them aren't IN their environment, they are in a cage somewhere.

There is no problem here having both sides in harmony, those who wish to hybridize can do so, those others who wish to keep pure lines can do so also.
There are many who purchase purebred dogs, with dog clubs like the AKC to trace the pure lines; and many who are happy with their mixed breed companions. I have heard that designer mixes in dogs also have elevated prices because people want to select for the particular combinations which are produced.

Why not simply purchase what you wish, and let other people do the same?
 
Old 12-09-2005, 09:08 PM   #7
Southwick Herps
Im not protesting it, or knocking the guy for doing it... It's just something I would not do, something I do not like seen done, and something I would not pay for.
I never said Lucille, that nobody would buy the offspring. There are many people willing to pay an ungodly price for something like that. Besides, I never said there should be a ban... Im just a firm believer in keeping species pure. There is a reason they evolved into what they were, and it isnt so we could go breeding them with other things. Now, if I was personally attacking the guy, saying he was a moron for doing it, saying he should be shot for doing it blah blah you'd have a more valid argument against me personally... Otherwise I liked your post, had a lot of truth in it. People will pay for it, because some people like hybrids. I personally do not, and wouldnt take one for free.
And, Im soo sorry Dr Owens for stating my opinions as facts, please excuse my goddamn wrong sentence structure. Ill work real hard on that next time I try posting my opinion, because Ive seen it done hundreds of times here, people stating their opinions as facts with nothing said about it... I don't see why I have you hounding me about it...
Plus, the reiterations... were they necessary? To quote all the different instances in which I did it? A simple "what you said is simply an opinion, not fact, please don't state it as such" would've worked just fine.
Ridiculous some of the crap I see here with no retorts, and I post something with good info, all be it opinion, and Im getting knocked for it...
 
Old 12-09-2005, 10:06 PM   #8
darkbloodwyvern
weird, IMO

I just like the species uncrossed, most of the time. superballs look neat as do anglon and ball crosses, and some kingsnake hybrids are spectacular.. I'm really not into any snake bigger than a red tail however, so i don't like the idea of a giant ball python... The only thing that bothers me is the idea of the mom giving birth to young that will not live a very healthy life because they have inneffective genes or whatever. Like the guy selling the eyeless snake for "the right offer"-those kinds of thing bother me. i would gladly adopt an eyeless snake as long as the temperment was good, but i could never pay money for it as a breeding specimin, hell as specimin, period! hybrides seem to mostly do well, but i'm always a tad wary of the ones that seem rather genetically far removed. But if it's someone lese piece of cake, eh, why not? It seems like the more knowlagdable breeders are the ones doing it (now anayways...). People do do creepier things : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12...ain_flies_jet/ so cool, but also weird! :scatter:
 
Old 12-09-2005, 11:52 PM   #9
gmherps
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwick Herps
Incase you couldn't tell Im a firm believer in the Theory of Evolution, and I also thoroughly enjoy studying it...
[
Gee, that's really nice you BELIEVE in your little theory.
 
Old 12-09-2005, 11:57 PM   #10
LadyOhh
I'm just planning on making Balls and make them healthy and beautiful like they are... No hybrids for me, thanks.
 

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