Chris Quagliata (quagliata) - Sent wrong/sick animals, wont make good on our deal

I really, really hate that it has come to this, especially so quickly, but the sheer amount of resistance I've met from this seller to make right on this transaction has driven me here.

A few weeks back, Chris Quagliata posted a group of adult and subadult cornsnakes for sale. There was six snakes in the lot, two subadult stripes, an adult bloodred, an adult amel, and two subadult reverse okeetee.

I was looking over the group and interested in buying, messaged Chris to let him know, but warned him in advance that I'd only be able to pay $150 of the $200 that night, as I was waiting for another transaction to finish. He confirmed, repeatedly that this was okay. I mentioned that this may take awhile, I'd had some trouble with my buyer, and if the money didn't come through as planned, I may have to back out. He confirmed that this was okay. I mentioned that we've had temps of over 105 here in Texas, and that I wouldn't be comfortable recieving them until the temps had dropped, and he confirmed that not only was this okay, but that 'cornsnakes can survive in heat so they'll be fine'. Right. I should've backed out right there.

I sent my $150, and sent him regular updates to stay in touch while waiting to receive the rest of the money from my buyer. During this time, I offered several times that if he had other buyers, he may want to pursue them, as I was having a very hard time getting in contact with my own buyer and may not be able to finish our transaction. After about two weeks (during the time of which the temps never dropped below 103 anyway, just fyi), my buyer had dropped clear off the face of the planet, and I sent Chris a very apologetic letter letting him know that I'd have to back out on our deal.

Chris was very unhappy about this, and refused to refund the money, despite mentioning earlier in the transaction that he'd have no problem doing so if things didn't work out. I was getting frusterated, but instead of fighting him (I could certainly understand his own frustration at this point as well), compromised and we decided that four out of the six snakes of my choosing would be an appropriate way to settle the deal. I picked out the two stripes, the bloodred, and the amel.

I didn't hear from him for several days, despite him being online and responding to threads. He never confirmed my choices in snakes, never confirmed when they'd be shipped out, etc. After four days, I get an e-mail from him stating that they'd been shipped. Good thing I'd taken the day off.

Well, they arrived, and I was shocked. The box, which was less than half the size of a shoebox, with no cool pack (despite the warnings about the heat), had all the snakes crammed in it. I pulled the bag out and opened it onto the table - inside was five snakes, varying in size from hatchling to adult, all stuck together in one big mass. I started seperating them and realized that he hadn't sent me what I'd asked for. I had the adult bloodred, the adult amel (which turned out to be a creamscicle, oh well), and the anery stripe... no albino stripe in sight. Instead were the two snakes I'd specifically stated I didn't want - the reverse okeetees (which I think might actually be candy canes, again, oh well). One of them was much smaller than expected, the other was a hatchling (certainly not a subadult). Not only that, but it was so weak that it could hardly move, bobbing its head from side to side and struggling to stay upright while I held it. It had a nasty old retained shed stuck all over its body, was severely dehydrated, had bug eyes, and just looked absolutely pitiful.

I couldn't believe all these animals of such HUGE size differences were shoved into such a tiny bag together, and was really appalled at the condition of the baby. I've sent out snakes in bags before, but always separated by size, with the smallest ones going into deli cups, but this just seemed like way too much in way too small of a space. I send Chris a message, which is where the fun really began. He absolutely refuses to send the other stripe, and insists that I should be grateful for receiving five snakes instead of four, as if he did me a favor by sending this dying hatchling along with the snake I told him I didn't want.

Below is pictures of the baby, and all the snakes in the bag. I'll be making a post following this one with the PM conversation.





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Conversation parts that I could save are below -

Originally Posted by Labinnah
I have $150 in Paypal right now, but I wouldn't assume that you'd want to do the group for $150 shipped. I'm waiting on payment from the sale of another animal at the moment, that's when I'd have the remainder available to me.

Originally Posted by quagliata
i already have someone that i sold them to them for $150 shipped, he gave me a deposit of $15, but if you can send me the $200 by tonight there yours. i will make up some excuse to the other guy and give him his $15 back. its up to you.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Aw naw, if someone's already snagged em then that's fine. If he falls through for whatever reason, just let me know, that $150 will still be here for sure (hopefully $200 soon) and I'd be glad to take em off your hands

Originally Posted by quagliata
you sure? bc if you send me the $150 now i can wait untill you get the other $50 to ship them

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Oh well that would be fine with me I just didn't wanna keep you waiting if you were lookin to move them asap, I've been having some problems with this guy though, just fyi, it might be a bit. What's your Paypal?

Originally Posted by quagliata
its fine and cqjr@aol.com thank you =]

Originally Posted by quagliata (keep in mind this was about 10 minutes later)
hey so are you going to pay?

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Er, yes, I apologize I had to take my dogs for their evening walk. I'm getting Paypal fired up right now. As far as shipping, temps have been pretty high here lately, like over 100 for a week now...
Thanks

Originally Posted by quagliata
the temp shouldnt be a problem. they could last in hot weather.

Originally Posted by Labinnah (two days later, when I started gettin a bad feeling about my own buyer and wanted to keep him updated)
Ey there,
Did you ever get any follow-up from your other buyer? I'm still waiting on this money, it's been a bizarrely long time for his check to go through :\ If you have another buyer, don't feel obligated to hold these guys for me, you can issue a refund if you've got someone else who can pay ya in full right now. Just lemme know, thanks!

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Hey there!
Honestly, I'm still having problems with my buyer :\ There's a chance that I'm going to have to relist my guys and issue the original buyer a refund with that money, he hasn't responded to me in a few days, and I haven't seen hide nor hair of that final payment. I sincerely apologize for the issues, if anything, I'll be able to let you know by Sunday evening at the latest as to what's goin on, that's the last day my buyer has to finish paying up.

Sorry again bout all this mess, thanks a ton for the patience!

Originally Posted by quagliata
idk we will see. if we cant ship ill just refund the money.

(there was some other messages from me in here where I didn't get a response, just sending updates on the situation, they're not terribly relevant so I skipped them, but they can be posted if necessary. I gave up on my buyer, and this is where things started going downhill. The next few, some are combined because a lot of the PMs were more like fractions of a conversation)

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Hey there,
I'm real sorry man, I never heard anything at all back from my buyer, so I'm gonna have to refund em his money, which means I needa back out on this deal. I apologize, I know this is a huge hassle and a massive waste of time for you, trust me, if I could take that group, I'd obviously have done it in a hearbeat.

Originally Posted by quagliata
i cant give your money back. you committed to buy them from me. i cant just give refunds when pleased. i had a lot of other people interested and now there all gone. why should i lose out on this? when its not my fault? i could ship you 4 out of the 6 snakes.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
I'm pretty sure I've given out refunds when things haven't gone as planned with other folks, which is what I'm trying to do for my buyer here. But if that's how it is, then fine, I know everyone runs their businesses differently. I'd like the two stripes, the bloodred (third one pictured on your sale post), and the amelanistic, just not the two Reverse Okeetees.

(several days went by here where I didn't hear from him, I sent a few inquiries on whether or not this was okay with him, and if that's the shipping date we were settling on. No response at all until...)

Originally Posted by quagliata
all shipped out

(I recieved them the next day, which is when the following happend)

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Hey there,
I got the box in and am a little confused... I really didn't want these reverse Okeetees, especially not this hatchling with a really awful retained shed... where's the albino stripe?

Originally Posted by quagliata
I thought me giving you a free corn would be nice of me. I was going to give you 4 for $150 but I gave you 5 for $150. You saved $50 and still got 5 out of 6 snakes.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
You took out a snake I'd specifically asked for and replaced it with two small snakes I specifically expressed that i didn't want, one of which has considerable issues from a retained shed. Had you included them in addition to the stripe, yeah, I'd be thrilled and would be posting positive feedback all over the BOI. At the moment, I'm pretty upset, and really wondering how we're going to solve this.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Look, like I said before, I don't want this to get ugly, but I'd really like to hear from you since you're online right now. Please let me know what the options are for solving this. I really, really would rather not have to leave someone negative feedback, but this really throws a wrench into the works. Please get back to me soon, thanks.

Originally Posted by quagliata
i dont know morph names at all of corn snakes first of all. and why would you be giving me negative feedback? if anything i should be the one who is getting mad at you. you made me hold them for 2 weeks so you could pay me the rest of the money and then 2 weeks later you ask for your money back. yo should be thanking me for sendin you 5 out of the 6 snakes for $150 when we agreed for $200.

Originally Posted by Labinnah (I admit to losing my patience, seeing that baby all beaten up like that really made me lose my cool)
If you didn't know what they were, you should've said that before sending them out. I would've been happy to be more specific, and point out the individuals by description as opposed to having you guess. Not to mention, the missing snake, the stripe, is pretty hard to mistake for anything else...

That little reverse okeetee hatchling arrived to me nearly dead. It was limp when I pulled it out, presumably crushed under the weight of all the massive snakes it was bagged up with, severely dehydrated, and half-choking on its own retained shed. That is NOT worth what I paid, and is specifically an animal I told you I did not want.

I will take this to the BOI if that's what you'd prefer. As far as 'waiting two weeks to ship', I told you several times in the very beginning that I was having unexpected trouble with a buyer, and gave you many, many chances to refund me and go with one of the other buyers you had for this lot. Not to mention, with the temps being what they were, you wouldn't have been able to ship them anyway! You kept telling me you were 'okay with waiting' and to take my time getting it to you, even when I told you this more than likely wasn't going to happen after all.

Feel free to send me the stripe, I'll return to two okeetees to you, or you can refund me a portion of this.

Originally Posted by quagliata
im not spending the money to ship you the stripe. thats stupid of me. if you dont want the 2 snakes you can ship them back to me. and if you want money for them, each snake has a value of $22. i figure this by, you gave me $150, shipping was $40.. $150 - $40 = $110. i gave you 5 snakes. $110 % 5 = $22 each.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
No, that would cover shipping alone. What was 'stupid' of you was not sending me the animal I paid for. You even sold this entire lot to someone else before me for '$150 shipped', so what happend here that you suddenly couldn't supply me with the animals I specifically requested?

Originally Posted by quagliata
i actually didnt sell the same group for $150. i sold them only 4 out of the 5 snakes. you were going to pay me $200 for 6 snakes i gave you 5 for $150 you should be thanking me. and i love how your not even giving this time for us to come up with an agreement. what do you want? im not spending another $40 for shipping. let me know how u wanna solve this? if you would of stuck with the original deal in the beginning none of this would be happening. i am not sending you another snake plus spending $40. id rather give some money back, then doing that.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
In the earliest messages I have saved from you, you stated that you'd already sold the lot to someone else for $150 shipped, and that he had a deposit down on them.

To solve this, I'd like the animals I'd asked you for originally. You never asked me if it was okay to switch them out. You never even confirmed that you'd gotten my message before shipping them out. The quantity doesn't matter when a) they're the ones I told you I didn't want and didn't need and b) one of them arrives nearly dead.

I already told you how I'd like this solved, and you've already stated you're not going to do it, so I'm taking this to the next level. Send me the stripe, I'll send you the okeetees, and we'll be settled. You wouldn't have to be wasting another $40 for shipping if you'd just stuck with the deal in the first place.

Originally Posted by quagliata
i dont think thats a fair trade. i spent $40 on shipping already and u only gave me $150. thats only $55 for me for 5 snakes. the value of those 5 snakes aren't only $55 total. the value of the stripe of what you paid for it would of been $200 % 6 which is = $33. but you only gave me $150. so if i give you $33 and let you keep the 5 snakes that wouldnt be right. the way you calculate it is $150% 6 = $25. i should be giving you $25 back. which is making u pay only $125 for the 5 snakes. which cheaps me out since you were supposed to give me $200 for the 6.

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Let me make this simple for you. You were supposed to send me two stripes, an amel, and a bloodred. I got a stripe, an amel, a bloodred, a dying hatchling, and a useless morph I don't need. I'll pay $40 to ship the snakes you weren't supposed to send me back, and you pay $40 to ship me the snake you owe me. The condition that baby arrived in, and the fact that you shoved all these snakes into the same bag minus a cool pack alone is enough to warrant a BOI thread.

Originally Posted by quagliata
a cool pack isnt always guarantee to work. and you didnt ask for one. and the hatching isnt going to die. he is just going though a rough shed. they were not shoved they had enough space, they arent big snakes. and its only for about 12 hours that they are in there. every other time i bought snakes thats how they shipped them to me. and thats how im shipping out and no one else has a problem with it. they arrived to you alive. and you arent making this fair to me at all. 1- u screwed me over with the payment. i still gave you more then the amount of snakes. why should i give you all the better snakes, when u didnt pay me the full price. but i still said oh let me be nice and give the guy 5 out of the 6 snakes he wanted. but now he saying that he didnt want 2 of them? that doesnt make sence to me. if you didnt want 2 of them why agree to buy all 6 including the two for $200? makes no sence. like i dont report you saying how u agree to buy from me but now u dont pay the rest. most other people wouldnt even do what i have done. the $150 was like a deposit. still waiting on the other $50. if you dont pay the rest you wouldnt get your money back or get part of the deal. but i was nice enough to give you part and more of the deal. i dont understand. i tried being more then nice to you but now ur going to sit here and complain to me.


Originally Posted by Labinnah
(pardon my language, I was getting very upset)First, how the h*** did I 'screw you over' with payment? I laid out the situation right infront of you in the beginning, and you agreed to everything. Second, a cool pack should be a no-brainer considering the temps we've had here, you got lucky that today just happend to drop below 90, otherwise I have a feeling that baby wouldn't have made is. Third, you never asked if I wanted you to replace the stripe. Did something happen to it that you're not telling me about? To me, the stripes and the bloodred alone were worth the money I was about to pay, the rest were going to be traded off or resold. You shorted me the snake I specifically asked for and replaced it with two I told you specifically I did not want. How do you not understand that? I can't breed this okeetee to the stripe. I wanted to breed the stripe to the stripe, or the stripe to my opal or lavender het stripe, etc etc

This is my last PM to you unless you're prepared to send out the stripe. I'm in the process of finishing the first half of the BOI post, and formatting all of our PMs. You have about half an hour to come to a decision.

Originally Posted by quagliata
why does this have to be your last pm? and whats a BOI?

Originally Posted by Labinnah
Because I'm tired of jerking around with this. You've made it pretty clear you don't understand what you did wrong here, and you don't intend to fix it. The BOI is the Board of Inquiry, it's the feedback forum on here where folks will review the case and decide whether or not to buy from you in the future. I will give you a link when the thread is posted.

Originally Posted by quagliata
thanks alot. and i will make sure to put one up there as well for you.


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So that's that. Quagliata has been notified of this thread, and I'm still sitting here with this baby trying to get it to do something other than lay here and look dead... And while the adults arrived in relatively good condition, the shipping methods and lack of cool pack, along with the complete misunderstanding of how to handle a conflict, would absolutely prevent me from ever dealing with this person again. I do realize that I initially was responsible for the issue, but also feel like I gave plenty of warning before engaging in the transaction. I've done several with others on here with very positive results, and I feel there were several possible ways this could have ended happily, none of which were taken.

Wow, quagliata, you have anything to say for "business ethics" or lack thereof?

Holy Crap. That hatchling looks horrible. I really hope it all works out for you bro. Chris Quagliata, I hope you make this right, and welcome to my list!

When I inquired about some of his crested geckos a while ago Chris indicated he was only 17 and had never shipped a reptile before.......that was the only red flag I needed. I think this quote should be everyone else's red flag to never deal with Chris, "i already have someone that i sold them to them for $150 shipped, he gave me a deposit of $15, but if you can send me the $200 by tonight there yours. i will make up some excuse to the other guy and give him his $15 back. its up to you."

Originally Posted by Magic Merlin

When I inquired about some of his crested geckos a while ago Chris indicated he was only 17 and had never shipped a reptile before.......that was the only red flag I needed. I think this quote should be everyone else's red flag to never deal with Chris, "i already have someone that i sold them to them for $150 shipped, he gave me a deposit of $15, but if you can send me the $200 by tonight there yours. i will make up some excuse to the other guy and give him his $15 back. its up to you."

With that quote as well as as what he shipped out and the manner in which he did sums it all up for me. Definitely not someone who I would suggest doing business with. Chris you have definitely

I find it ridiculous that he didn't add a cool pack because you didn't ask for one. The seller should not only check temps, but should be prepared with how to ship in different temps.

I'm really sorry for that baby. I hope it ends up okay.

I never had understood that seller mentality that's it OK to send something subpar since their customer got it at a good price...

As a seller you should GIVE YOUR CUSTOMER WHAT THEY PAID FOR. If you can't or won't provide that, then you shouldn't be selling fast food - let alone live animals.

In this particular case and in some of the others I have viewed, it shows again the seller putting money before the snake. That is, money and the greed of it all before the snake's overall health, condition, and livelyhood. In my honest opinion I could care less if the snake is worth $10.00 or 5000.00. It still possesses life and it is our job as hobbyists, breeders, and buyers to ensure that the snake in our possession is taken care of and kept responsibly ahead of all other aspects.

Here we see the seller 1) having understanding for the minor setback of the buyer 2) agreeing to accept what he had monetary wise for a portion of the collection 3) agreeing to give the buyer what he/she would like from the overall collection.

We then see the seller revoke his understanding, refusing to send the buyer what he/she had asked for in the first place, and shipping in unwise conditions poorly cared for snakes. This by itself reveals the character of the seller and the common practices he engages in. It also seems that "money" is the most important factor as he will not spend out of pocket to have the situation rectified and corrected by shipping out what the buyer had originally paid for.

I believe before you decide as a person to enter into this hobby, you need to possess the responsibility in caring for these animals, have the funds to provide for the animal in the event the animal would need care from a vet, and the knowledge and professionalism in your dealings with customers and buyers alike. And it has always been my belief that the animal and its health always comes before the money to be made.

Victor P. Moss

Originally Posted by quagliata
i already have someone that i sold them to them for $150 shipped, he gave me a deposit of $15, but if you can send me the $200 by tonight there yours. i will make up some excuse to the other guy and give him his $15 back. its up to you.

I would have stopped right there!

Originally Posted by jfreels

I would have stopped right there!

Honestly, and in retrospect, I really should have. When he mentioned the other buyer, I'd taken a step back and asked him to contact me if the original fell though, but had also gotten the vibe that he'd been holding them for awhile with nothing but a $15 deposit and was looking to let them go asap. Of course, now, after all this, AND finding out the guy's a kid, it really just adds to the shadiness of the whole mess