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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
04-11-2012, 07:23 AM
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#181
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The thing that really caught my attention was that the snake was stuck to the bag as if he was biting it! The first thing I thought was that snake just got too hot! Then reading the details of shipping...
A few years back I had a YB Ball Python with some stuck shed and I thought I would put him in my sink to soak a bit. I was cleaning cages and had the water running for awhile and thought everything was cool, so I put him in the sink. I looked in after a minute and he was trying to get out of the sink, but they always do. I left for another minute and came back and the snake was under water with a full open mouth rattle snake looking bite onto his own side! I went to grab him and the water had to be around 105-110 degrees (maybe more). His neck and head felt stiff, so I continued to massage him off and on for about an hour and a half... Then his mouth finally closed and he died. I really hate even thinking how I cooked the little guy and it truthfully bothers me recounting the story. But... It tells me that this snake was more-than-likely cooked! Add to that 2 heat packs, during the warm temps, and the fact that the SELLER shipped in a manner that had a snake in a box all day (a very warm day).
I personally would refund him the money and be done with the situation. Its pretty obvious why that snake is dead! A legit response from someone that is so horrified over a blackmail attempt would be to refund or replace the buyer, then to press charges on whoever was responsible for blackmailing you. Other than that it looks kinda shady.
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04-11-2012, 08:17 AM
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#182
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I dont know any of the people involved in all of this and Im not necessarily taking sides with the seller, but I would be very very cautious of refunding any money as well. One, the blackmail emails started before the seller even got pics of the dead snake. Two, it seems very odd me that the that Kevin is obviously new to this and needs these other two clowns to give him guidance. I just cant see someone new to the hobby spending 4,600 on a snake. I could be wrong, but it is fishy. Third, after the blackmailing emails that talk about posting on the boi, Kevin creates and account here the day before. Does anyone know that these three are NOT the same person. I asked before, but I dont think it was answered.
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04-11-2012, 08:17 AM
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#183
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The sad part is, there is no proof the OP was in the blackmail. The OP has continuously stated that he didn't agree with what Sean said. The OP did ask for the sharp aztec but it wasn't a threat. For all I know, he was willing to pay the difference. Sean was the one who did the blackmail and he was not the customer. Sean also came and apologized for his actions, which I don't know if it would hold any merit in court.
Now, I don't know the OP or Sean. However, from an objective standpoint, there is absolutely no proof the OP was in on the blackmail. Does this mean he wasn't in on it? Nope, he could have been sitting at Sean's house helping him type the email. But, we can't prove it. The communication between the OP and Andrew always seemed good. Neither of them were being difficult until Andrew got the blackmail letter from Sean.
I don't think Andrew will be able to prosecute the OP for the blackmail since it would be hard to prove that he was in on it. He can try to go after Sean for the blackmail but that still leaves the OP without a snake he purchased and without the money he put into it. Andrew stated on this thread that he gives a 6 month guarantee and also has stated in this thread that he will not refund this guy's money for a dead snake. The OP should have grounds right there to file a claim to get his money back.
This whole situation is very sad.
Star
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04-11-2012, 08:30 AM
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#184
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IMO, the only reason Sean came forward with an apology was because he got caught showing his and he knew it would be detrimental to his sales. He didn't even address it when he first came to this thread...he had to go away and think about it for a while. I don't think he deserves much in the way of credit for his apology.
Sean scammed somebody here when he was a minor (he still has the incorrect DOB listed, btw - unless he was lying about his age in that thread), and came back a few years later trying to play himself as an older, more mature, good guy that is doing things the right way now....but, from his activity in this situation, it doesn't look as if he's improved a whole lot.
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04-11-2012, 08:38 AM
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#185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore
IMO, the only reason Sean came forward with an apology was because he got caught showing his and he knew it would be detrimental to his sales. He didn't even address it when he first came to this thread...he had to go away and think about it for a while. I don't think he deserves much in the way of credit for his apology.
Sean scammed somebody here when he was a minor (he still has the incorrect DOB listed, btw - unless he was lying about his age in that thread), and came back a few years later trying to play himself as an older, more mature, good guy that is doing things the right way now....but, from his activity in this situation, it doesn't look as if he's improved a whole lot.
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I am not disagreeing with you at all. I am talking about from a legality point. If Andrew goes to press charges for the blackmail, he can't press charges on the OP, it would have to be on Sean. Now, if the courts actually looked into the case, I don't know if the apology would help Sean or not. That is what I was trying to get at.
Star
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04-11-2012, 09:14 AM
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#186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexPredatorBoids
Really!? That's a bold (read: poorly thought out, IMO) statement. You really think the onus is on the buyer to jump through hoops or seek legal action to fix the seller's mistake? I think you're coming pretty far out of left field on this one. Live arrival only guaranteed through litigation if you piss him off...Hell of a precedent to encourage, in regards to standing behind one's TOS.
Oh, I don't know about that. While we're going out of our way to spin things and miss the real point while arguing moot ones, the buyer paid a lot of cash for a live, healthy snake. What he received was a dead and rotting one. That could just as easily be twisted and labled as fraud. Mr. Potts keeps asking the buyer to prove, via posting of emails, that he didn't approve of how his associates were handling the situation. So, turnabout is fair play. I mean, can the seller prove that the snake was alive when he sent it out? Maybe he had a very recently deceased boa that he saw as an opportunity to turn into a quick $4500. Does he happen to have a continuous video clip showing the living snake being packed and sealed in the box and that box being driven to and handed over to the shipping agent? My own ideas are no more approaching ad ridiculum than those of the conspiracy theorists that support the seller's refusal to do the right thing.
Unless people really buy into the X-Files fan-fiction-like conspiracy theories, it's pretty hard to paint a picture that doesn't involve the snake dying due to the seller's shipping negligence. It doesn't take a specialized degree in thermodynamics to speculate on how it likely went down: snake shipped in a very small, styrofoam-insulated compartment with 2 heat packs in 80+ degree weather. Said styrofoam box is placed within a cardboard box which is then transported in a large metal box (delivery truck), possibly having very restricted air flow due to being surrounded by others boxes on all sides. Pretty easy, for me, at least, to see how this could lead to a slow-roasted boa.
Bottom line: the fact that the buyer seems to have made the mistake of aligning himself with some shady characters DOES NOT, in and of itself, negate the seller's extremely likely responsibility for the snake's death. If he's that salty over what he believes to be blackmail, then he should pursue it in court against those that can be proven to be directly responsible for it. Meanwhile, what he owes the actual buyer, I believe, is an entirely different situation.
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04-11-2012, 09:21 AM
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#187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobraman1
I dont know any of the people involved in all of this and Im not necessarily taking sides with the seller, but I would be very very cautious of refunding any money as well. One, the blackmail emails started before the seller even got pics of the dead snake. Two, it seems very odd me that the that Kevin is obviously new to this and needs these other two clowns to give him guidance. I just cant see someone new to the hobby spending 4,600 on a snake. I could be wrong, but it is fishy. Third, after the blackmailing emails that talk about posting on the boi, Kevin creates and account here the day before. Does anyone know that these three are NOT the same person. I asked before, but I dont think it was answered.
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http://imgur.com/xTth7
Never thought I would have to prove my ID before. You got my military ID because well I dont feel like going into photoshop and blacking out my address and such
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04-11-2012, 09:27 AM
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#188
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I would also like to point out that if you type in Andrew Potts Boa in google you will now see this forum at the #4 google hit
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04-11-2012, 11:28 AM
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#189
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The OP needs to be refunded. That is the bottom line. Mr. Potts messed up and is now trying to find any reason not to refund the OP his money. Just another person to avoid. How sad... once again someone can't see past greed.
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04-11-2012, 12:23 PM
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#190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baileykm
http://imgur.com/xTth7
Never thought I would have to prove my ID before. You got my military ID because well I dont feel like going into photoshop and blacking out my address and such
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You would be surprised at some of the people on here that go by many different names. Being a marine or ex-marine, you should know never to take pictures of a CAC card and post it, especially if its expired. Im still not sure why your partners(I know you say different, but they seem to be your partners) started blackmailing andrew before you even sent him proof of the snake being dead, but it is hard to believe that you had no idea what so ever that they were doing this. All in all I 100% understand why Andrew is hesitant to send a replacement or a refund. It all seems very shady at the least.
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