Beware of Jerry Kruse

You mentioned that you had procreated at least once and implied that said offspring was still young. I'm assuming too young to be reading this thread.

That's going to change, ol jer. Someday jer jr. is going to do a quick search on his old man's name, since I'm guessing you won't be around for much of his growing up, being the stand up guy you've proven yourself to be so far, and he's going to see just what people think of you and why.

Here is the post. Agree or disagree on the statements and thoughts of another member but it seems to me that it is a opinion on the character of Jerry not attacking his family.

Originally Posted by TONY D

Well said. I would only add that I've personally learned a lot about ZD during this process.

I agree Tony, and thank you once again for being one of the few voices of mature and intelligent reasoning, in this thread of too many pages..haha!!!!

so to re-cap
jerry sold 6 zonata for 3100.00 to stu.
within 2 weeks of recieving them they were showing known symptoms of ZD.
stu tried to get resolution with jerry and was blown off, so stu brought it here.
upon bringing it here it was/has been resolved... kind of.
jerry lied about when stu was to be repaid.
jerry tried to spin this whole transaction so it was him that somehow was taken advantage of. jerrys friends have also joined in claiming all is good and hail jerry as a good guy for finally refunding stu despite the fact it took 4 months and this thread to finally get stu his refund.
anyone who knows about snakes in general KNOWS that snakes cannot go from perfect robust representations of their sp. to what stu posted pics of in just 2 weeks time UNLESS there is/was an underlying health issue with those snakes OR that they were simply neglected. stu posted pics of exactly how he kept them during his tenure.
i think any reasonable person can see exactly whats what from reading all of this and can make their own decision as to whether or not to do business with jerry in the future.

Thomas,

Trust me, by no means am I attempting to defend Mr. Kruse, but instead I'm just trying to enlighten you and/or anyone else out there about how quickly 'zonata disease' can, and does, set in. You stated this in your above post:

anyone who knows about snakes in general KNOWS that snakes cannot go from perfect robust representations of their sp. to what stu posted pics of in just 2 weeks time UNLESS there is/was an underlying health issue with those snakes OR that they were simply neglected.

Please, trust me when I say this, that I REALLY didn't want to add another comment to this thread. However, while you are technically right about what you've said above, I think it can easily be misconstrued by anyone not familiar with this disease. The key thing you said was "underlying health issue". Yes, I do believe that any snake that comes down with ZD does in fact have an "underlying health issue". Unfortunately, I think that "underlying health issue" can be absolutely silent, and be completely unknown to the original owner or seller.

I've had snakes that were fine one day, literally be kinked up like they were exhibiting the worst signs of tetanus the very next day. Zonata disease can set in that quickly. That very same snake acted and appeared like a normal and healthy zonata the day before. As I did with my example of my experience with Bell's Palsy, the onset of neurological symptoms can be sudden and without very little warning. So yes, I do think it's possible for a snake to be sent appearing 100% healthy, only to turn in a matter of hours at a later date.

Furthermore, the bad sheds associated with ZD do not slowly progress. They are a sudden appearance, but only after the snake sheds. Many times, if you're being VERY observant, you can see the scales on the dorsal surface of the animal begin to slightly dimple. However, usually the snake simply goes into the blue, sheds, and then all of a sudden you have a snake that looks like someone has taken sandpaper to it (even the eyes have that scrapped appearance; the eyes are actually one of the best indicator characters of an animal with ZD). But, if you think about it, the onset of ZD in this case is once again a sudden thing.

Like I said, I'm not defending Jerry, but I am sharing with you and anyone else who cares to listen, that I don't believe Jerry sent what he thought were 'sick animals', or animals with ZD, to Stu. I truly think the animals looked 100% healthy when they were boxed and shipped to Stu. Now, as I've stated before, I think the temps at which Jerry keeps his zonata are cool enough to maybe negatively affect efficacy of each snake's immune function. I think with a compromised immune system, and then being shipped to a keeper who maintains his animals at higher (but safe and I'd say the right temperature for zonata) temperature and less humid environment (btw, I've never offered my z's a moist hide, and they do fantastic. However, I do use shoebox containers which allows evaporated water from their water bowls to remain in the air and increase humidity levels in their enclosures), might just be what brought about the onset of ZD in these snakes. I'm 100% sure that there were "underlying health issues" with the snakes sent to Stu, but I don't think Jerry was aware of it. It's been said by me, and Joe, that the original collection that both Jerry's and Joe's animals came from was known to have been ravaged by ZD. That info may or may not have ever been disclosed to either of them when animals were purchased. If not, then neither Jerry nor Joe were aware of what might be lurking in their newly acquired animals.

Lastly, I want to stress that this isn't a defense for Jerry, it's just me sharing my knowledge of ZD with you and everyone else. How this entire thing has been (mis)handled by Jerry is a completely different topic that I simply won't discuss. Enough has been said about Jerry, Stu's, and everyone else's character for any reader to make up their own minds on. However, the etiology of ZD should be made as clear as possible to everyone, so that they have the best understanding possible when they make up their own minds regarding the 'intent' of Jerry when he sent the animals. I think Jerry's intent was one of business involving what he thought were 100% healthy animals...but what else he was thinking, and how he handled things after that is not something I want to ever discuss.

Take care, and I hope you (Thomas) and anyone else who's read this can appreciate the purpose of this post.

Mitch

ok thanks for that info mitch. i as im sure everyone here does appreciate it and given your information about ZD i will retract my statement that jerry knew these snakes had an underlying health condition.
however, it certainly doesnt justify jerrys actions or his honesty or how he handled a customer that just spent 3100.00

Btw, I wanted to clarify one thing. I think the way I worded things above, regarding humidity with zonata, and going from Jerry's to Stu's collections, may have come across as though Stu's humidity issues weren't good. That isn't the case at all. I was just saying that from what I've read Jerry keeps his animals very moist. After seeing Stu's setup, his isn't as moist (which I think is the better setup...z's don't need it as moist as people think), but it does have a humid hide. When I made reference to how I don't use humid hides, that wasn't my way of saying I keep my collection like Stu's; because I know Stu uses humid hides, while I don't. I've never kept my snakes in those lidless containers, just because it seems like I'd lose too much control over each individual container and any humidity associated with it. However, I've always thought that if you use lidless containers to keep zonata, then you do need a humid hide. Just my thoughts...and a little clarification as to where I think Stu and others might have thought I misspoke about things. Hasta.

Mitch

Originally Posted by Mitchell Mulks

Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.

2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.

3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.

4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).

6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

Mitch

that's great that jerry finally refunded Stu's money. now what about all this other stuff?

i highly doubt it's merely fabricated lies.

"unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure" how can anyone of sane mind trust jerry?

Thomas, with respect to your post (the one you snuck in before my 'clarification post', dang!)...I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Mitch

John,

I've already written that 'other' stuff, as seen by your quoting me on it.

Here's something for you and everyone to think about. I really don't care for Mr. Kruse. That's obvious. Also, if I just wanted to see Mr. Kruse slammed for everything, true or not, I would have just sat back and watched him get slammed for 'knowingly' sending sick snakes to Stu. However, I don't believe in allowing disingenuous information about someone, or their actions, to 'take them down' (btw, I don't think Thomas was trying to 'make up' things about Jerry, I just think he thought that ZD didn't act that quickly and that Jerry had to know; that's why I defended my belief that Jerry didn't realize they were sick when he sent them...because ZD can onset that quickly).

So, given that, I think you can deduce for yourself whether I think what I wrote before I believe to be true, and whether I simply made it all up to 'take down' Jerry.

Mitch

Might I add to this that the breeder where my problem zonatas came from, (same breeder Jerry and many others purchased animals from), was very upfront and honest about having had zonata disease in his collection. He told everyone that I know of whom purchased animals from him. He did say that the surviving zd sufferers had "recovered" for the most part and they still had some lower body mobility problems, but that they were not contagious and the rest of the collection seemed fine. IMO an honest statement at the time, for we still are not sure how this is trasmitted. However, for most of the five animals I got from him to have come down with zd, and the rest of my animals which came from different sources to be fine, leads me to believe this was transmitted among the five animals somehow. My collection is thriving and I have had no issues since removing the sick (put in the freezer) and having since removed the others to a different room for precautions. They will never rejoin the colony.

Joe