Pat Kline - neutral review

Originally Posted by Black Adder

Nope, you are!
All I did was to point out to another poster why I considered service was not fine and then the pair of you have blown it out of all proportion.
Not one single person has even remotely mentioned that incorrect or missing labelling was responsible for the death of the frog apart,again, from the pair of you.
You really should learn to quit while ahead.....

If I remember the original post correctly, the OP had more issue with the customer service when they informed the seller about the dead frog than anything else. And from what I'm seeing here. I can see why the OP had issue with the customer service. But that's just my view.

I ordered 5 red eye tree frogs from pat early this summer. 3 2 arrived dead. 1 died with in 8 hours. The other 2 are still going strong 6 months later and he compensated me for the ones that arrived dead and worked out pick up at a hub. Pat always got back to mw on time and seems like a good guy. I'd do business with him again as of now for sure. That's just my experience.

WC animals are chancy at best... WC frogs have got to be very delicate. I am not at all surprised that one did not make it. A small, WC reed frog is not going to have much tolerance to poor conditions and sadly this one did not make it.

I see a few things on either side that could have been done more optimally, but honestly with shipping WC frogs there can be losses. I don't think Pat did anything "wrong"; more that these things happen no matter what sometimes.

OP, if you want better odds, look into the (many) sellers who sell CBB frogs. I have ordered CBB reed frogs in the past and all did quite well.

Just my opinion, but I think you are getting carried away with being "right". No, it's not easy to hear that you could have done something differently and an animal died. Should the seller have read between the lines regarding your plans? Maybe....should you have asked very clearly....maybe so...chalk it up to lesson learned.

Regardless of who's fault the death of the frog was, is it really appropriate for a seller to confront a buyer for leaving a mediocre review? That seems rather bullying doesn't it? Reviews are based on the buyer's perception of the sale, not the seller's.

For example, I bought a box of raw cork for vivarium builds. I bought it despite a 1 star review, because the review said "I bought this and all I got was a box of dirty wood". To that buyer they got ripped off, meanwhile that was exactly what I was looking for so I ignored the rating and made the purchase.

If Pat doesn't want people to leave reviews from their perspective then he should require that his reviews be approved before hitting his site. I don't see why the buyer is being treated as if she said the death of the frog was his fault, her entire complaint was his treatment of her... which I can understand from what I've seen posted on this thread.

I've heard wonderful things about Pat Kline, so I can only assume previous experiences are affecting people's view on this post, but if Pat was a newb on the scene and he made statements about it not being a big deal if he labeled his packages or not... what would people say?

Again, I don't think either party did anything wrong per say, just seems unprofessional to get upset at a customer for leaving a review you don't like. Again, Pat's reputation precedes him (in a good way), but I don't think that should mean the OP gets treated any different for sharing her experience. IMO

Originally Posted by Black Adder

REMINDER TO CUSTOMERS - Please remember to write the common name and scientific name on the outside of the box or on the inside flap of the box to ensure a smooth shipping process. US Fish and Wildlife requires this information

direct quote from reptiles express website, very first thing you see when you go there.

so just because "lots" of people do it does not make it right or acceptable does it? Now I have also been guilty in the past of not including the species name at times but NEVER have missed labelling as live animals.
so yes maybe nit picking but it is a valid point in my mind
that's all.......

lmao thats not true. only for shipping animals into Florida is that required

Originally Posted by BlakeWilsonRetics

lmao thats not true. only for shipping animals into Florida is that required

Where did you find that information? The Lacey act requires all live animal shipments to be labeled with quantity, common and scientific name

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Originally Posted by kmrkvicka

Where did you find that information? The Lacey act requires all live animal shipments to be labeled with quantity, common and scientific name

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sorry. nope. laws vary state to state. where did you find YOUR information?

Originally Posted by BlakeWilsonRetics

sorry. nope. laws vary state to state. where did you find YOUR information?

Exerpts from:

(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or

(b) Marking offenses

It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

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please include paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

pleeease

Originally Posted by BlakeWilsonRetics

please include paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

pleeease

Exerpts from:

United States Code Annotated Currentness. Title 16. Conservation. Chapter 53. Control of Illegally Taken Fish and Wildlife.

Citation: 16 USC 3371 - 3378

Citation: 95 Stat. 1073

Summary: The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce.



(a) The term “fish or wildlife” means any wild animal, whether alive or dead, including without limitation any wild mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod, coelenterate, or other invertebrate, whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity, and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof.

(b) The term “import” means to land on, bring into, or introduce into, any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether or not such landing, bringing, or introduction constitutes an importation within the meaning of the customs laws of the United States.



(1) Taken

The term “taken” means captured, killed, or collected and, with respect to a plant, also means harvested, cut, logged, or removed.

(2) Taking

The term “taking” means the act by which fish, wildlife, or plants are taken.



(k) The term “transport” means to move, convey, carry, or ship by any means, or to deliver or receive for the purpose of movement, conveyance, carriage, or shipment.

It is unlawful for any person--

(1) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;

(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce--



(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law;

(b) Marking offenses

It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title.



Currently at Labor and Delivery, so this may have to do for the moment

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