Airborne Express mess

SO what are our choices to be able to safely ship snakes????? The only way I see to do this is with air cargo but that is not cost effective for some snakes unless it is in large quantity. I just received a snake through Airborne today and on the box it was marked live snake so tell me what the hell that they are doing there. I can't believe that a company would cry so much over some harmless snakes that are in a box. Is everyone out there that ignorant about snakes? Just in shipping alone it is millions of dollars a year that they would make. Please help me to understand what it is that we have as a choice to ship snakes with out having to lie. I hate to lie and want to use someone for this. Help me to understand please.

Russel Reiter

I'm glad to see so many people interested in this discussion. I'm not glad that we need to have it.

No one involved in the business, even as a casual hobbyist/breeder should take this lightly. I've talked to several people about this issue whose attitude was "well, it's never happened to me, so no big deal". Some people seem to think because they ship regularly that they have "permission" to ship snakes. The arbitrary, unwritten policies of these carriers say otherwise.

Here is the item in the UPS terms of service relating to live animals:

(i) UPS does not regularly provide service for packages containing live animals. (The term "animal" as used here refers to anything living, except plants.) UPS will only accept packages containing live animals for shipment within the United States on an exception basis. Transportation for packages containing live animals is limited, must be prearranged, and as with all other packages, will be provided only according to the terms and conditions contained in the UPS Tariff.

Here is the link to the UPS Tariff:
http://www.ups.com/media/en/Final_Tariff_7-3.pdf

Nowhere in these documents are the words reptile or snake mentioned. However I was told repeatedly that it is against their "policy". Whether it is written or not, the fact is they opened my package (which was unlabled, without air holes, and the stated contents were orchids) and then took the time to come to my house and give me crap about it. Someone from their corporate network using their corporate browser made repeated visits to my site in the early morning this package was shipped. I asked about the "exception basis" mentioned in their TOS and they said fine, if I'm shipping bugs or lizards.

The revenue these carriers derive from the entire live reptile industry is pennies compared to one large account like Amazon. I am assuming at some lower level in their structure are commissioned account reps or sales people who do benefit from our business and perhaps they have some interest in keeping us as customers. Otherwise I don't believe these organizations really care about our having us as customers.

Please, somebody prove me wrong.

Alex Tanner

Looks like they changed their website terms back in May, but when I got my account with UPS, it clearly stated that snakes were not acceptable for shipping. I had to fill out some paperwork and get approval to ship geckos, but after about 2 weeks I was approved, and I take the letter from their corporate office saying that I'm allowed to ship geckos, with me everytime I drop off. Also, you don't need to have daily pick up to ship lizards.

I will not ship with Airborne. I have had three separate occasions in the past two years where they have lost packages containing live animals that have been shipped to me for 3-4 days each. They just seem to have no system that is adequate for tracking their packages.

FedEx on the other hand is super. I have shipped over 100 packages the past two years with them and received about 25-30 and have had no major problems. Even during the power blackout here I was able to go downtown to the main distribution center and pick up my package.

Ups is somewhere in the middle of those two in my opinion.

I use FEDEX also zero problems. Got ahold of my local FEDEX sales rep had him check what I was shipping, showed him boxes I used and how I shipped, then I had to send a box to a FEDEX test area passed with fly colors no questions asked when I ship now! Even save 10% when ship online labels and more discount as I ship more and more items. FEDEX IS WAY TO GO!!!

I used to have an account with airborne, they are absolutely one of the worst shippers ever! I had several boxes just left on porches on both ends! They seem to leave them on any porched based on if they felt like it or not, no matter the fact that it said "keep warm" on the box or "live harmless reptiles". You should simply just stick with UPS, they are a very good company and even though they have raised their prices a little, they are still worth it.
Kevin Smith

I used to ship with Airborne all of the time. And I learned to hate it. They would typically lose one out of four boxes, so every day I would ship, I would have to be tied down near the phone to handle problems when customers called complaining their package did not arrive as expected.

Once I had some packages delayed because some Airbone Head decided that my packages were HazMat. Never did get a good explanation for that one. Once I had a small box get billed as weighing 75 pounds, and often got charged an Exception Handling Fee.

I guess I have been with UPS for about 6 months now and have had ZERO problems. I have a daily pickup account, but the driver gave me his cell phone number and I just call him up when I have a pickup. The local sales rep came out here, inspected the animals, shipping materials, and even stood by and watched as we packed up a half dozen boxes going out via Airborne that day. Took photos and had nothing to complain about. He said that when he mentioned to the local manager that he was going down to SerpenCo to check us out for a new account that everyone there already knew about us.

If you get a UPS account, get their label printer and software. It makes doing the shipping labels SO easy that I check them three times before printing them because it goes so fast I am certain I am leaving something out.

If something goes sour with UPS and I have to find an alternative to ship, I will REALLY be unhappy if Airborne is my only option.

Sure there is always Delta, (I am certain my Verified Known Shipper status has LONG expired by now) but if you haven't found out by now that there are a LOT of people that consider driving to the airport as a hardship, you certainly soon will. Generally, unless you have something they cannot get elsewhere, unless you can offer door to door service, you will probably lose a lot of business.

I tried FedEx exactly one time. The animals showed up dead upon delivery, and I never tried them again. YMMV.

I HAVE SHIPPED WITH AIRBORNE AND LOVED USING THEM IN THE SUMMERS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THEY HAVE CLIMATE CONTROL VANS BUT THEY HAVE MESSED UP MORE SHIPMENTS THAN ANYONE ELSE. SO I STARTED USING UPS AND HAVE NO PROBLEMS UNTIL THEY FLAGGED 1 OF MY BOXES FOR REPTILES. BUT THEY SUDDENLY CHANGED THEIR POLICIES AND DIDNT LET ANY OF THEIR ACCOUNT HOLDER AWARE OF THIS. I HAD A REP HERE AT MY FACILITY TO BECOME VERIFIED THROUGH THEM EVEN THOUGH THEY SAID ORIGINALLY THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN SHIP REPTILES IS BY HAVING AN ACCOUNT WHICH IS WHY I OPENED ONE WITH THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. BUT I GOT EVERYTHING STRAIGHT AND HAVE NEVER HAD AN ISSUE. NOW NOMATTER WHO YOU USE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AND HEAR HORROR STORIES BUT WHEN YOUR DEALING WITH SHIPPING ANIMALS THATS WHAT HAPPENS. ALSO WHEN YOU HAVE IDIOTS OUT THERE TRYING TO SHIP 10 FT PLUS SNAKES AND VENOMOUS ANIMALS THROUGH NEXT DAY AIR THAT SCREWS IT UP FOR THE REST OF US. NOW NOBODY SHIPS SNAKES AT ALL EXCEPT AIRLINES SO IT IS TOTALLY AT OUR OWN RISK WHEN WE SHIP NEXT DAY AIR. NOW 1 OF THE CARRIERS ARE GONNA BUDGE ON THAT I BELIEVE AS SOON AS THEY SEE THE DEMAND AND HOW PROFITABLE IT IS SO AS LONG AS ENOUGH PEOPLE BOND TOGETHER IT MAY HELP. 1 VOICE DOES NOTHING BUT IN THE MASSES THINGS GET ACCOMPLISHED. I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT THIS AND HAVE ALOT OF BACKING BUT IT TAKES MORE THAN 20 OR SO INVOLVED BUT WE WILL BE DOING A PETITION TO BE SUBMITED TO THE CORRECT CHANNELS SO EMAIL ME IF YOUR INTRESTED IN DOING THIS. THANKS ALOT

CHRIS CMG REPTILES

Well, I just sent out 8 boxes of herps via UPS today. They pick up later in the day then airborne, which is great for both us and the animals. I have already been told by Fedex that they will not allow me to ship live animals. I have now been told that by Airborne as well. So far, the UPS people that set up my account, the drivers, and the people working at the counter don't have any problem at all with me shipping live animals. They even asked what kind of snakes I had in the boxes, and I said shhh, legless lizards please. We get nothing but compliments about our packing, and we do try to keep animal noise inside the boxes to a minimum. We really do our best to make everyone happy. Now, if the rest of the world would cooperate, life would be good. I don't know where all this is going to lead. Is it possible that in the near future we will only have Delta to ship animals? And of course if the animal welfare groups have thier way, that will be a thing of the past also. I suggest we all get together like we did for the sulcatta scare in Florida and do something, before it is done to us first. Take care

I suggest we all get together like we did for the sulcatta scare in Florida and do something, before it is done to us first.

I agree. This thread is disturbing, and should be to anyone who ships reptiles, even infrequently. The possible inability to ship reptiles is a very real danger to our hobby, and the very livleyhood of many. If shipping becomes impossible, or even limited to airlines only, it will cripple the industry, and relegate us to sales at swap meets and locally. Sales of a pair of cornsnakes or leopard geckos would cease completely if shipping were to become limited to Delta only.
We must convince at least one overnight carrier to accept our buisness, and the only way that will happen is for everyone affected by it to offer their support. Unfortunately getting the herping community together has proven a rare event in the past.
They must be shown first the amount of potential revenue that exists, and second that the accepting of harmless reptiles for shipment is risk free to them.
I would feel safe in saying that the first company to open their policies to include all harmless reptiles would gather 90% of the reptile shipping buisness at least and this is indeed a significant market. All but those who are adamantly opposed to the one who accepts us would switch to them just for the ease of it all.
Once one company made the plunge so to speak, the others would likely follow suit just to get their piece of the pie. Even if they didn't, we're still better off.

I like the idea of a petition to begin with, just as a show of numbers. Online petitions though carry much less weight than actual signed papers. I would think 1000 signatures might at least get them to look at the situation a little more.
It would be nice to have representation in the situation as well, maybe from a group such as PIJAC.
If such a representative could present the three companies with a petition and a proposed set of guidelines to cover shipping we might just have a chance. An official representative of a national organization is going to carry far more weight than someone like me presenting the exact same material.

There's really nothing more than fear and ignorance stopping it. If there are actually other reasons for their actions I would be interested in knowing them. No one is asking for live arrival guarantees or the ability to ship venomous overnight. I think the vast majority would be happy if they would just accept the packages without a hassle and with no more guarantee than they offer to other packages.
I don't think there would be much objection if there was even a size limit placed on snakes. In reality, a 50 pound burm should be on an airplane anyway.
One of the biggest obstacles right now is simply locating someone to talk to about it. Talkis to sales reps and customer support personnel isn't adequate, but the people we need to address, the actual policy makers, are basically unknown.

I also find Rich's question as to the discrimination aspect interesting. Most of us can't afford to hire a lawyer to investigate it, but it would be great if there was a lawyer/herper that would look into that. Why is there a difference made between a turtle and a hatchling kingsnake or ball python? A class action suit to force them to treat us fairly would be great if it were possible. Perhaps the FTC would be the proper place to inquire about that.